Author Topic: Holy Water and the Eastern schismatics (Read 1016 times)

Kephapaulos · « **on:** December 31, 2012, 08:12:22 PM »

Can the Eastern "Orthodox" actually have holy water blessed by their priests?

Sigismund · « **Reply #1 on:** January 01, 2013, 12:21:28 AM »

Of course. They are priests, even if schismatic. Their Divine Liturgies are valid. Why wouldn't a blessing given to water be valid?

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #2 on:** January 08, 2013, 10:02:40 PM »

I was not sure because I would have that the schism would somehow prevent Eastern Orthodox priests from giving true sacramentals.

Sigismund · « **Reply #3 on:** January 09, 2013, 09:50:34 PM »

The Catholic Church has consistently taught that it does not. This is not to make light of schism, but Orthodox sacraments are valid.

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2013, 02:57:24 AM »

Quote from: Sigismund

The Catholic Church has consistently taught that it does not. This is not to make light of schism, but Orthodox sacraments are valid.

One should not confuse Sacraments and Sacramentals, since it is "only materially that the sacramentals are to be likened to the sacraments; they depend formally on the jurisdictional power.", as Card. Journet writes and which can easily be deduced from Canons 1144ff in the old Code. But formal jurisdiction is lacking in the Eastern schismatic Churches. Still, as in other things concerning the schismatic Greeks, the tacit approval of the Pope will surely guarantee a certain effectiveness to sacramentals confected by Eastern schismatic clergy.

But as far as I know, the (non-Uniate?) Eastern Churches do not have the same tradition in regards to Holy Water as the Latin Church, anyway.

Roland Deschain · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2013, 05:27:22 AM »

Quote from: Pyrrhos

Quote from: Sigismund
The Catholic Church has consistently taught that it does not. This is not to make light of schism, but Orthodox sacraments are valid.

One should not confuse Sacraments and Sacramentals, since it is "only materially that the sacramentals are to be likened to the sacraments; they depend formally on the jurisdictional power.", as Card. Journet writes and which can easily be deduced from Canons 1144ff in the old Code. But formal jurisdiction is lacking in the Eastern schismatic Churches. Still, as in other things concerning the schismatic Greeks, the tacit approval of the Pope will surely guarantee a certain effectiveness to sacramentals confected by Eastern schismatic clergy.

But as far as I know, the (non-Uniate?) Eastern Churches do not have the same tradition in regards to Holy Water as the Latin Church, anyway.

Correct. Eastern Christians actually drink Holy Water, I believe.

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #6 on:** January 10, 2013, 05:32:31 AM »

Quote from: Roland Deschain

Quote from: Pyrrhos
Quote from: Sigismund
The Catholic Church has consistently taught that it does not. This is not to make light of schism, but Orthodox sacraments are valid.

One should not confuse Sacraments and Sacramentals, since it is "only materially that the sacramentals are to be likened to the sacraments; they depend formally on the jurisdictional power.", as Card. Journet writes and which can easily be deduced from Canons 1144ff in the old Code. But formal jurisdiction is lacking in the Eastern schismatic Churches. Still, as in other things concerning the schismatic Greeks, the tacit approval of the Pope will surely guarantee a certain effectiveness to sacramentals confected by Eastern schismatic clergy.

But as far as I know, the (non-Uniate?) Eastern Churches do not have the same tradition in regards to Holy Water as the Latin Church, anyway.

Correct. Eastern Christians actually drink Holy Water, I believe.

This is (or largely now: was) also customary in the Latin European Church.