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Author Topic: Holy Ghost or Spirit?  (Read 7939 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
« Reply #135 on: July 06, 2018, 08:26:00 AM »
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  • The modernist controlled "biblical movement" which inspired this change was under way decades before the Second Vatican Council. Pius XII also authorized several bilingual rites which might have opted to use Holy Spirit in the mid-1950s.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #136 on: July 06, 2018, 10:34:20 AM »
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  • Quote
    I have a copy of a throw-away Church guide sheet that is dated summer of 1964, containing instructions on how we were to change from Latin responses in our "dialogue Mass" to the vernacular.
    Can you scan/post that to this site?  Would be very intersting to see.  Thx in advance.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #137 on: July 06, 2018, 12:39:16 PM »
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  • The modernist controlled "biblical movement" which inspired this change was under way decades before the Second Vatican Council. Pius XII also authorized several bilingual rites which might have opted to use Holy Spirit in the mid-1950s.

    And I didn't particularly care for Pius XII's new Latin Psalter either.  I have no problem with someone else using it, but as a personal preference I really disliked it.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #138 on: July 06, 2018, 06:59:33 PM »
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  • Can you scan/post that to this site?  Would be very intersting to see.  Thx in advance.
    .
    You're welcome, Pax Vobis. 
    Yes, I found it when going through old papers about 40 years later. It was amazing. It had the rubber stamp of my parish with its address, made with an old ink pad. I found it after I had re-discovered the TLM.
    Fortunately, I had not gone through those papers before that time because I would have just thrown it away since I wasn't interested in such things until later.
    But unfortunately, I don't remember where I put it. I've had to re-organize and move things for various reasons, so stuff gets mixed up, especially when you get "help" from others.
    If I ever do find it, I'll scan it and post an image for you. Don't hold your breath!
    It measured about 4" wide and 6" tall, folded into a zigzag pattern so its 8 or 10 sides all collapsed accordion style.
    Black and white, no fancy graphics, but done with typesetting, not on a typewriter. 
    The pastor must have had a printer make these up which he disseminated for the whole parish.
    It could have come from the diocese though, since the parish name and address were stamped on, not printed in.
    If it was a diocese brochure, that would be the diocese of Riverside, California. Perhaps a copy is in archives somewhere.
    BTW that's where the famous Mission Inn is, in Riverside.
    They give tours of the Mission Inn and ask early in the tour if there are any Roman Catholics in the group.
    They say it's so they can include special exhibits that are really meaningful for Catholics.
    That's a lie.
    They ask for Catholics because only when there are NO CATHOLICS will they take the tour through the blood drenched altar exhibit.
    It's an authentic old altar from Mexico where priests were αssαssιnαtҽd in front of it during the Calles Freemasonic genocide. 
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #139 on: July 06, 2018, 07:14:06 PM »
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  • And I didn't particularly care for Pius XII's new Latin Psalter either.  I have no problem with someone else using it, but as a personal preference I really disliked it.
    .
    True to form, it's all about how YOU FEEL?
    News flash: No, it's not.
    .
    The Church was just fine with the Latin Psalter in nearly continuous use since St. Jerome in the 5th century.
    Then along comes Pius XII and his newfangled Ladislaus-style accommodation of heretics, and the whole thing changes.
    He gave Annibale Bugnini his commission who remained in place for the next decade to destroy the Latin Mass.
    He revised Holy Week which at the time was the oldest continuous untouched liturgy from Apostolic times.
    He paid obeisance to Modernists in regards to biological evolution, origins of the universe and age of the earth.
    But that's all fine with Catholics who are primarily concerned with being warm and fuzzy with unbelievers.
    Like Ladislaus is.
    It has nothing to do with whether you "like" it or not. 
    The Church is not a democracy where important decisions are made based on their popularity.
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    Offline TxTrad

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #140 on: July 06, 2018, 07:20:02 PM »
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  • .
    BTW that's where the famous Mission Inn is, in Riverside.
    They give tours of the Mission Inn and ask early in the tour if there are any Roman Catholics in the group.
    They say it's so they can include special exhibits that are really meaningful for Catholics.
    That's a lie.
    They ask for Catholics because only when there are NO CATHOLICS will they take the tour through the blood drenched altar exhibit.
    It's an authentic old altar from Mexico where priests were αssαssιnαtҽd in front of it during the Calles Freemasonic genocide.
    .
    Woah....  that would be something to see.
    Terrible they show it only to non-Catholics.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #141 on: July 06, 2018, 07:26:53 PM »
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  • The modernist-controlled "biblical movement" which inspired this change was underway decades before the Second Vatican Council.
    Pius XII also authorized several bilingual rites which might have opted to use Holy Spirit in the mid-1950s.

    .
    .
    The so-called Diologue Mass was a new fad in the 1920s, kind of like Flappers, but not very popular; mostly in large cities like New York, San Francisco and Minneapolis. You know, the same ones that are now going whole-hog-homo! (Gee -- I wonder if there's a connection!)
    Prior to about 1870 (post-cινιℓ ωαr!) no Catholics had any handheld Sunday missals. They didn't exist. Getting schedules that showed prayers and Scripture readings used at Mass was no small order, very hard to come by! 
    I have read that Pierre Teihard de Chardin and his fellow communists - I mean liberals - were fond of using Holy Spirit in English.
    But most of them didn't normally speak English. They were French, German and Italian mostly, with a few Dutch and Scandinavians. 
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #142 on: July 06, 2018, 07:35:43 PM »
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  • Woah....  that would be something to see.
    Terrible they show it only to non-Catholics.
    .
    From what I've heard it's just a matter of keeping control of the good feeling of the place. The owners of the Mission Inn don't care about religion, really, and they might not be eager to offend Catholics because they hate them or something. But in the past, when Catholics have been present on tours when the group goes through that exhibit, the Catholics have raised their voices against the half-truths or worse that the tour guide speaks in the script they have to memorize. Since the guides are not really informed but simply going through the motions required of their job description, they're caught off guard by comments or questions from knowledgeable Catholics, who understandably have their own vested interest in protecting the truth.
    .
    Consequently the tour guides could have a riot on their hands. So to avoid riots, they just keep Catholics out of that exhibit.
    Then the Protestants and Jєωs and Moslems can all have a nice time sharing gossip about how terrible Catholics are.
    That makes for much more marketable Public Relations! It helps to pay the bills, basically.
    .
    To avoid confusion, the Mission Inn is not tied to any California Mission. The closest one is San Gabriel, about 50 miles west of Riverside.
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    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #143 on: July 07, 2018, 12:13:46 AM »
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  • If it was a diocese brochure, that would be the diocese of Riverside, California. Perhaps a copy is in archives somewhere.
    BTW that's where the famous Mission Inn is, in Riverside.
    They give tours of the Mission Inn and ask early in the tour if there are any Roman Catholics in the group.
    They say it's so they can include special exhibits that are really meaningful for Catholics.
    That's a lie.
    They ask for Catholics because only when there are NO CATHOLICS will they take the tour through the blood drenched altar exhibit.
    It's an authentic old altar from Mexico where priests were αssαssιnαtҽd in front of it during the Calles Freemasonic genocide.
    .

    Right down the street from St Francis de Sales Catholic Church..I have been there. I went with a friend late at night after work, wanting to scope it out behind the scenes, I don’t know how we managed to walk around the Inn without being seen. We were acting like hotel guests I suppose. We took the elevator and some back stairs and found ourselves on a balcony somewhere, it was so beautiful, but especially quiet and eerie at night. 
    I wish I had known about the altar.  
    How do you know this secret about them lying about the history of it? I would love to know more. 

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #144 on: July 21, 2018, 01:06:06 AM »
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  • Right down the street from St Francis de Sales Catholic Church..I have been there. I went with a friend late at night after work, wanting to scope it out behind the scenes, I don’t know how we managed to walk around the Inn without being seen. We were acting like hotel guests I suppose. We took the elevator and some back stairs and found ourselves on a balcony somewhere, it was so beautiful, but especially quiet and eerie at night.
    I wish I had known about the altar.  
    How do you know this secret about them lying about the history of it? I would love to know more.
    .
    I suspect you would not have been able to get into the room with the altar in it, as they certainly keep that locked up separately.
    .
    The only way to know about this policy is to get a job as a tour guide at Mission Inn and then you'll learn it when they train you. But you can verify how their secret is protected by trying to apply for the job. Since they would be accused of religious discrimination if they admitted that Catholics are not eligible to apply, they no doubt have figured out a way around that hurdle.
    .
    The way I found out was my mother explained it to me. She went on a tour there before I was born, and had been advised by a friend that she should not raise her hand when they ask for a show of hands for any Catholics present. So my mother resisted the urge to "stand up and be counted" like the martyrs of old would do. As a result, since there were no others in the group who raised their hand, the tour guide took them to see the famous altar. The guide of course made no mention that priests had been shot dead while saying Mass in front of it, in Mexico. That's why they don't want Catholics to be in the group when seeing this altar. Too controversial.
    .
    You can read about the bloody Calles genocide in the book, Blood-Drenched Altars, by Most Rev. Fr. Francis Clement Kelley. You can borrow the book free online at archive.org:
    .
    https://archive.org/details/blooddrenchedalt00fran
    .
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    Offline Carissima

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    Re: Holy Ghost or Spirit?
    « Reply #145 on: July 24, 2018, 06:33:40 PM »
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  • What a fantastic book suggestion thank you! True history of the Church in books is hard to find unless you know what to look for. For me, growing up Novus Ordo didn’t help much for learning anything history related that wasn’t about US Presidents or false Native American propaganda.