Author Topic: Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone  (Read 1975 times)

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Offline Stephen Francis

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Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
« on: November 08, 2012, 08:42:42 AM »
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  • +JMJ+

    Friends in the Holy Trinity, please help me out here. Someone I know who was baptized Novus and raised in a VERY mushy suburban Novus 'parish' is now an 'evangelical Christian'. She was taught many wrong things about Our Lady, and went on (as a teenager and young adult) to read all sorts of baloney about the fraud called Medjugorje and other 'visions' that people have had of something that they thought was the Virgin. In short, for a long time, this woman had her head full of the WORST kinds of superstitious garbage related to Mary; now she is very gun-shy when it comes to the subject of the Virgin Mary at all.

    How do I continue (I have already started to some degree) to explain to her things such as:

    Our Lady's role in the history of redemption?

    Her role as a powerful intercessor, which is based on Christ's merits, as with other saints, but is above and beyond the intercession of any other saint?

    The devotion that is shown to Mary as Queen of the Apostles, Queen of All Saints and Queen of Heaven, among other attributes?

    Finally (at least for now), how do I explain that so much of what the Church teaches about Mary is not found in Scripture but is clearly seen in the writings of the Fathers and later?

    I know that such a question goes at least partly to the Prot error of 'sola Scriptura', but how do I explain that seeing these doctrines and dogmas concerning Mary in post-Biblical writings does not represent a DEPARTURE from Apostolic truth, but a CONTINUANCE of truths which can be gleaned from Scripture?

    I know these answers will probably get pretty lengthy; if there are any print or Web materials I can use, please feel free to recommend those as well.

    St. Alphonsus de Liguori, lover of Our Lady as Mother of All Christians, pray for us.

    Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline Nishant

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #1 on: November 08, 2012, 01:14:58 PM »
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  • Hello Stephen.

    Proceed along the way of the Rosary.

    That is to say, start with the Angelic Salutation, in St.Luke's Gospel. Remember the Angel salutes her saying "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee". St.Thomas says that it was absolutely unheard of in antiquity that an Angel should reverently salute even a man, and the Old Testament instead shows us Abraham and Lot reverently saluting Angels, even prostrating in veneration. This shows us that Mary most holy incomprehensibly exceeds even the just of the Old Testament. It also indicates her Immaculate state, since where grace is full, there is no sin, and this even before, as the Angel describes next, the Holy Spirit indissolubly united Himself to her forever as His most glorious Spouse.

    Continuing with the same Gospel, come to the Visitation. St.Elizabeth, much much elder to the Blessed Virgin, is amazed and humbled by the visit of the Mother of her Lord as she says when filled with the Holy Ghost. St.John whom Our Lord styled the very greatest of the Prophets, leaps for joy in his mother's womb. This again bears witness to the unspeakable greatness of Our Lady.

    There is much more that could be said, for from Genesis through Revelation, there is scarcely a time when the good God, so greatly wounded by the transgression and malice of our first parents, was not thinking of Our Lord and Our Lady. For in the very day they sinned, it was said to them by the Father, in Genesis 3:15 "I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." Note that Protestant translations typically corrupt this text, but the first part remains untouched, so that even they must confess that the fallen Angel Lucifer is to be conquered by a Woman and her offspring, who will be the new Adam and Eve. Who is this Woman if not she who is blessed among women? For, if the offspring is Christ, it is manifest the Woman can only be Mary.  

    Finally, come to the Assumption and Coronation. In St.John's Apocalypse, the last book of inspired Scripture, we see in the twelfth chapter, a Woman radiant with the splendor of the sun, with the moon under her feet, crowned in heaven with a majestic Crown of 12 stars, present there in body and in soul, unlike the disembodied souls we saw earlier in the same book awaiting the day of judgment patiently. She is the Mother of God (verse 5) and the Mother of all Christians (verse 18). St.John again recalls our mind to that ancient serpent as he shows the Woman and her offspring at enmity with him. He shows us that the dignity that Eve lost, to be the mother of humanity as such, was instead given to Mary, to be the Mother of redeemed humanity, that is to say, of Christians. Lest we did not understand the meaning of that action where Our Lord gave Mary at the Cross to be the Mother of the beloved disciple, St.John here explains it for us. Mary is to be the Mother of all Christians without exception. He cannot have God for his Father who will not have Mary for his Mother.

    The last verse of the preceding chapter also calls her the new Ark of the Covenant in heaven, which is also important, since the Ark of the old Covenant was to contain the word of God, was greatly revered by the Israelites and irreverence to it was punished by death, as happened to Uzzah. Now, as the Fathers point out, Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant, since she held the Incarnate Word of God Himself in her womb, and is therefore forever holy and unstained, and the slightest irreverence to her is therefore utterly intolerable to the divine Majesty.

    So devotion to Mary began at the Cross, and to the Cross will it inevitably tend as to its last end. Devotion to Mary is the most perfect and excellent means to love Christ and Him crucified. Who else ever loved God as Mary did. She was first at the Cradle, She was last at the Cross. Let Protestants love Mary as Jesus loves Mary and only then will they come to love Jesus as Mary loves Jesus, and as He wishes to be loved, and then they will be drawn by Him into the one true and Catholic Church.

    The following video points out some of the more profound insights of the holy Fathers into the passages of Scriptures, including some of what I've related above

    Several of my Protestant colleagues, who came to me trying to make me believe in their own ideas, now accept that the Blessed Mother is crowned in heaven, by the grace of God. Some Protestants are of bad will undoubtedly, others are just ignorant, and have never heard Catholics defend the sacred doctrines of the faith as taught by the Church.
    "Never will anyone who says his Rosary every day become a formal heretic ... This is a statement I would sign in my blood." St. Montfort, Secret of the Rosary. I support the FSSP, the SSPX and other priests who work for the restoration of doctrinal orthodoxy and liturgical orthopraxis in the Church. I accept Vatican II if interpreted in the light of Tradition and canonisations as an infallible declaration that a person is in Heaven. Sedevacantism is schismatic and Ecclesiavacantism is heretical.


    Offline Stephen Francis

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #2 on: November 08, 2012, 02:08:06 PM »
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  • +JMJ+

    Nishant,

    Thank you for your wonderful insights. Deo gratias, I actually shared some of these very thoughts with this person last night.

    I think the real challenges are going to be both 'erasing', as it were, the fear of superstitious beliefs and bad teachings AND dealing patiently with this person. You've probably heard of or maybe even read some of the books she used to devour that alleged to teach about Mary or reveal messages from her. Utter relativistic, religiously-indifferent new-age garbage from cover to cover.

    So many things, like the Eucharist or the Rosary, can be tolerated by some 'christian' sects to some degree. There are (or at least have been) Lutheran and Anglican groups which had Rosary or similar devotions. Of course there are Prot groups that teach things which border on an attempt at explaining transubstantiation.

    Our Lady. however, seems to be one of the subjects, if not THE subject, that serves as a point of demarcation. The eastern schismatic groups honor her for some reasons and then say she was not immaculately conceived. Some Prot groups claim to honor her as ever-virgin, but they deny other aspects of her uniqueness.

    She is, it should go without saying by anyone, completely alone in her role as the person, man or woman, who was graced by Almighty God to participate in His redemptive and salvific work like absolutely no one else. Ever.

    Please let the suggestions and help continue. I am trusting that these conversations will bear much fruit and bring this woman to tradition and to Holy Church soon.

    St. Alphonsus De Liguori, pray for us.

    Mary, Help of Christians, pray for us.

    Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us.
    This evil of heresy spreads itself. The doctrines of godliness are overturned; the rules of the Church are in confusion; the ambition of the unprincipled seizes upon places of authority; and the chief seat [the Papacy] is now openly proposed as a rewar

    Offline ora pro me

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #3 on: November 08, 2012, 03:18:25 PM »
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  • Stephen Francis,
    I believe this link will be of help to you:

    http://www.olrl.org/apologetics/


    particularly, this one:  http://www.olrl.org/apologetics/cathansr.shtml

    and this one:  http://www.olrl.org/apologetics/statueworship.shtml

    God bless you!
    ora pro me

    Offline ora pro me

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #4 on: November 08, 2012, 03:31:31 PM »
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  • I believe that you may find some help from some of the sermons on Our Lady at this site: http://traditionalcatholicsermons.org/index_files/SermonsOnOurLady.htm

    Certainly most if not all of these sermons have been directed to Catholics, but perhaps you will find some help in your quest for the answers for your friend.  


    Offline ora pro me

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #5 on: November 08, 2012, 03:32:43 PM »
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  • Here is one more resource with answers to the questions regarding devotion to Our Lady:

    http://www.sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/catholic_faqs__theological.htm

    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 04:12:06 PM »
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  • Everybody else is giving good advice.

    I think that love of Our Lady should preceed any knowledge of the faith.  What's not to love about her?  She's the mother of Our Savior.  I can't grasp the shallowness of people who think love of Our Lady somehow detracts from love of Our Savior.  

    If Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ chose her as His mother, and He could have chose any other living woman, then we can safely conclude that Our Lord harbors a special love for His mother.    

    I think a lack of reverence and love of the Blessed Mother is a spiritual defect.  

    I'm suspicious of anyone who claims to be a Christian who doesn't share this love of Our Lady.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #7 on: November 08, 2012, 09:28:04 PM »
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  • Perhaps the following would help:






    From The Litany of Loreto by Rev. Fr. Richard Klaver (St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1954), here are some beautiful and edifying reflections upon the title Sancta Dei Genitrix wherewith Holy Mother Church extols the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Litanies of Loreto.










    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #8 on: November 08, 2012, 09:29:30 PM »
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  • Perhaps the following would also help:







    From The Litany of Loreto by Rev. Fr. Richard Klaver (St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1954), here are some beautiful and edifying reflections upon the title Mater Creatoris wherewith Holy Mother Church extols the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Litanies of Loreto.

    These reflections furnish very good apologetic material whereby one may explain the Divine Maternity of the Blessed Virgin Mary to Protestants, modernists, and other heretics.














    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #9 on: November 08, 2012, 09:31:04 PM »
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  • Here's some more:







    From The Litany of Loreto by Rev. Fr. Richard Klaver (St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1954), here are some beautiful and edifying reflections upon the title Mater Salvatoris wherewith Holy Mother Church extols the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Litanies of Loreto.

    These reflections furnish very good apologetic material whereby one may explain the singular place that the Blessed Virgin Mary occupies in the economy of salvation to Protestants, modernists, and other heretics, and to those who have questioned the doctrine of Our Lady as Co-Redemptress.
















    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #10 on: November 08, 2012, 09:33:30 PM »
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  • Here's more:





    From The Litany of Loreto by Rev. Fr. Richard Klaver (St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1954), here are some beautiful and edifying reflections upon the title Sancta Virgo Virginum wherewith Holy Mother Church extols the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Litanies of Loreto.
















    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.


    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #11 on: November 08, 2012, 09:35:18 PM »
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  • Here's some more. Our Lady is so great, and there is so much to study!





    From The Litany of Loreto by Rev. Fr. Richard Klaver (St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1954), here are some beautiful and edifying reflections upon the title Mater purissima wherewith Holy Mother Church extols the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Litanies of Loreto.
















    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    Help me explain devotion to Our Lady to someone
    « Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 09:36:14 PM »
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  • From The Litany of Loreto by Rev. Fr. Richard Klaver (St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1954), here are some beautiful and edifying reflections upon the title Mater castissima wherewith Holy Mother Church extols the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Litanies of Loreto.














    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #13 on: November 08, 2012, 09:37:11 PM »
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  • From The Litany of Loreto by Rev. Fr. Richard Klaver (St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1954), here are some beautiful and edifying reflections upon the title Mater inviolata wherewith Holy Mother Church extols the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Litanies of Loreto.














    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

    Offline Hobbledehoy

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    « Reply #14 on: November 08, 2012, 09:40:47 PM »
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  • From The Litany of Loreto by Rev. Fr. Richard Klaver (St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1954), here are some beautiful and edifying reflections upon the title Mater intemerata wherewith Holy Mother Church extols the Blessed Virgin Mary in the Litanies of Loreto.














    Please ignore all that I have written regarding sedevacantism.

     

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