Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers => Topic started by: Mercyandjustice on October 14, 2018, 07:59:24 PM
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Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraces his head. But every woman praying or prophesying with her head uncovered disgraces her head."
I have a couple of questions about this verse.
1) Do men have to uncover, and women cover, their heads every time they pray (like at home or in public or at work), or only during official Church rites (Mass, Divine Liturgy, Divine Office, processions, etc.)?
2)Also, the text says men are to uncover their heads, so why so why do bishops and other clergy wear mitres/zucchettoes/ other types of hats during Mass or when conferring Holy orders?
I've seen really old paintings and drawings that show clergymen wearing hats at Mass and even kings and rulers doing the same
Thanks!
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Ideally, I see nothing wrong with a woman, whenever she ought to pray, covering her head with a head covering. It was popular in Ireland before the Council, along with some other Eastern European Catholic countries.
1 Corinthians 11 is speaking about the need for women to wear veils out of submission to their husband/father (whoever is their superior). Here is the passage before verse four:
[3] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=3-#x) But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God. [4] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=4-#x) Every man praying or prophesying with his head covered, disgraceth his head.
Also, 1 Corinthians 11:7-10:
[7] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=7-#x) The man indeed ought not to cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of the man. [8] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=8-#x) For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man. [9] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=9-#x) For the man was not created for the woman, but the woman for the man. [10] (http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=11&l=10-#x) Therefore ought the woman to have a power over her head, because of the angels.
1 Corinthians 11 is stressing the importance of females veiling as a sign of submission to their head. St. Paul purposefully uses the term "head" while describing the male-female relationship because the "head" refers to both the real human head and the head of the created hierarchy. Covering the female head is the recognition of their place before men, as being constructed of man rather than being built in the image of God. Bishops, Priests, and Monks visibly submit to God with their dress (cassocks, habits, etc.) and do not cover their head in submission to other men (the opposite of why women are commanded to cover their head, and why men aren't commanded to cover their head). Clerics and lay brothers cover their head solely out of reverence and adoration for Our Lord (women can do this too, but it's more precise to say they veil out of submission).
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For sure, there's nothing wrong with a woman wearing head coverings, if they wish, outside of Mass. :)
I think, to the degree it doesn't resemble Muslim women, it is attractive.
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For sure, there's nothing wrong with a woman wearing head coverings, if they wish, outside of Mass. :)
I think, to the degree it doesn't resemble Muslim women, it is attractive.
Markus, here is a little quiz for you. I have seen some extremely attractive Muslim women. See if you can pick the religion of these fourteen images of
Women of various religions. I scored 10 out of 14. See how many you can get.
http://www.judaism-islam.com/quiz-can-you-tell-her-religion-from-her-head-covering/
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I think that this proves two things - that we are often ignorant of other cultures and that religious women of all faiths feel called to cover.
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Ideally, I see nothing wrong with a woman, whenever she ought to pray, covering her head with a head covering. It was popular in Ireland before the Council, along with some other Eastern European Catholic countries.
1 Corinthians 11 is speaking about the need for women to wear veils out of submission to their husband/father (whoever is their superior). Here is the passage before verse four:
Also, 1 Corinthians 11:7-10:
1 Corinthians 11 is stressing the importance of females veiling as a sign of submission to their head. St. Paul purposefully uses the term "head" while describing the male-female relationship because the "head" refers to both the real human head and the head of the created hierarchy. Covering the female head is the recognition of their place before men, as being constructed of man rather than being built in the image of God. Bishops, Priests, and Monks visibly submit to God with their dress (cassocks, habits, etc.) and do not cover their head in submission to other men (the opposite of why women are commanded to cover their head, and why men aren't commanded to cover their head). Clerics and lay brothers cover their head solely out of reverence and adoration for Our Lord (women can do this too, but it's more precise to say they veil out of submission).
So should men always remove hats or hoods or other things on their heads when they pray? Or only in a church building?
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Women who wear veils report that they are more respected overall than when they did not wear them.
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So should men always remove hats or hoods or other things on their heads when they pray? Or only in a church building?
I'd say it depends on the circuмstances and if wearing the hat is required. For example, some men in the military may have to wear a hat (in my country, a beret) while in uniform. If they wish to attend Mass in uniform or need to go to confession before training and they have no time to change, it becomes a necessity and can't be circuмvented.
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I'd say it depends on the circuмstances and if wearing the hat is required. For example, some men in the military may have to wear a hat (in my country, a beret) while in uniform. If they wish to attend Mass in uniform or need to go to confession before training and they have no time to change, it becomes a necessity and can't be circuмvented.
I have known many military traditional Catholics. They always have taken their hats off when entering a church but replaced them as soon as leaving the church.
Obviously, though, the requirement to "Pray always" does not mean that women will always be veiled when they pray of that men will never have their heads covered. If a military man was to say a quick prayer while in battle he may not have the time to take his hat off. Or a woman who does not have a hat may wish to say a quick prayer, but not having a head covering should not keep her from doing so. I think the idea is that if it is public prayer then the saying is to be applied.
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I have known many military traditional Catholics. They always have taken their hats off when entering a church but replaced them as soon as leaving the church.
In some countries (such as mine), it violates the dress code if a soldier were to remove his beret. What I know is that in the US enlisted men can wear a "patrol cap" while in uniform, and not be in violation if they were to take it off. However, in my country, it's a requirement the Army doesn't overlook or excuse based on religion.
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Markus, here is a little quiz for you. I have seen some extremely attractive Muslim women. See if you can pick the religion of these fourteen images of
Women of various religions. I scored 10 out of 14. See how many you can get.
http://www.judaism-islam.com/quiz-can-you-tell-her-religion-from-her-head-covering/
Interesting. I scored 9 out of 14.
You make a very good point. Perhaps the standard should be adjusted to say -- as long as they aren't wearing a Burka, which is excessive.
You are right, many Muslim women are attractive with their head coverings.
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I'd say it depends on the circuмstances and if wearing the hat is required. For example, some men in the military may have to wear a hat (in my country, a beret) while in uniform. If they wish to attend Mass in uniform or need to go to confession before training and they have no time to change, it becomes a necessity and can't be circuмvented.
I believe there is an exception for men in the military.
Dad told the story about how when he was in the Coast Guard Academy a friend who was also Catholic invited him home for dinner. It was a Friday. His friend told his mother that they had a dispensation from the rules of fast and abstinence so they could eat meat on Friday. His friend's mother replied, "Not in my house."
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In some countries (such as mine), it violates the dress code if a soldier were to remove his beret. What I know is that in the US enlisted men can wear a "patrol cap" while in uniform, and not be in violation if they were to take it off. However, in my country, it's a requirement the Army doesn't overlook or excuse based on religion.
I guess that is what happens when there are no longer truly Catholic countries. It makes sense. :-X
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13/14. But I live in NY and have regular exposure to people from literally all over the world. I confused the Sihk for Hindu. Not bad considering I'm of course Catholic.
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I have known many military traditional Catholics. They always have taken their hats off when entering a church but replaced them as soon as leaving the church.
It's standard protocol for American military to remove their berets / caps from their heads as soon as they enter any building, and they put it back on their heads as they're exiting the building.
I'm a veteran. I know.
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It's standard protocol for American military to remove their berets / caps from their heads as soon as they enter any building, and they put it back on their heads as they're exiting the building.
I'm a veteran. I know.
I have just recently learned this myself. I was incorrect in stating that wearing the beret violates the public 'dress code.' Removal of the beret is permissible in many circuмstances, including after entering a restaurant or a place of worship.
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I remember as a child thatevery man removed his hat when he entered a building and when he encountered any lady or even a girl child he would raise his hat as a mark of respect. Which is is still find it strange to see young men inparticular always with their hats stuck firmly to their heads. Sometimes i wonder if they sleep in them. Very little respect is visible today.
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I remember as a child thatevery man removed his hat when he entered a building and when he encountered any lady or even a girl child he would raise his hat as a mark of respect. Which is is still find it strange to see young men inparticular always with their hats stuck firmly to their heads. Sometimes i wonder if they sleep in them. Very little respect is visible today.
Modern women are infected with a diabolical pig spirit. (Apocalypse of St John 2:20-23)
Ain't no sense in casting pearls before swine. (Matthew 7:6)