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Author Topic: Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries  (Read 6437 times)

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Offline Disputaciones

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Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
« on: August 16, 2016, 05:12:49 PM »
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  • I have always felt bad about this, but i have always struggled to see what is there "mysterious" or "joyful" about the 2nd and 4th mysteries of the Rosary, the Visitation and Presentation. Every other Mystery of the Rosary makes "sense" to me and seems appropriate, but to me, these 2 are hard.

    I pray them anyways, but it is hard to meditate on them because, like i said, i don't see what is the mystery or the joy that warrants a place for them in the Rosary. I feel bad and guilty because sometimes i think other events in the New Testament would have been better as the 2nd and 4th mysteries.

    Any help here would be appreciated.

    For instance, what is the "joy" and the "mystery" you are supposed to be meditating on in these 2 mysteries?

    I have read some explanations about these mysteries but they didn't really help much.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #1 on: August 16, 2016, 05:39:41 PM »
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  • 2nd = Charity towards our neighbor; sacrifice of Mary to travel and help St Elizabeth.  Baptism of St John in the womb.  Inspiration of St Elizabeth and the creation of the first part of the 'hail mary'.  Mary's also-inspired response, the beautiful prayer of the 'magnificat'.  The answer to persevering prayer in the pregnancy of St John and of the promise of a redeemer in Our Lord.

    4th = Obedience and Purity.  Our Lord and Our Lady's obedience to fulfilling the law in visiting the Temple and offering sacrifice.  Obedience and sacrifice in offering Our Lord, as their first born, to God.  Purity in intention, body and soul, as Our Lady fulfilled the laws of purification, though She, as most-pure, needed no purification.  Our Lord would have been had his circuмcision done on this day too, so this is the first time He shed his blood.  


    Offline Disputaciones

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #2 on: August 16, 2016, 06:37:57 PM »
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  • Wasn't the Circuмcision 8 days after birth, and the Presentation 40?

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #3 on: August 16, 2016, 10:38:27 PM »
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  • Quote

    Any help here would be appreciated.

    For instance, what is the "joy" and the "mystery" you are supposed to be meditating on in these 2 mysteries?



    In the Second Joyful Mystery, St. John the Baptist "leapt for joy" in his mother's womb, and St. Elizabeth was (mysteriously) filled with the Holy Ghost as she exclaimed with joy, "Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb!" We (mysteriously) repeat this 53 times with each 5-decade Rosary.  Our Lady joyfully cared for her cousin during her childbirth in advanced age, and she "mysteriously" did not consider her duties "drudgery" as modern feminism liberationists curiously are wont to do. The Blessed Virgin Mary joyfully traveled into the Judean hill country all by herself, and was (mysteriously) not attacked by vandals or robbers, as would likely happen today. Her joyful meeting with her cousin was profoundly moving to her, such that she spontaneously erupted with her (mysterious and joyful) Magnificat, which prophesies itself (mysteriously) that it will be repeated through the ages, from generation to generation, and it (joyfully) has been so repeated. St. John's father, Zacchary had been mysteriously struck dumb (speechless), and it was not until he wrote on a tablet "His name is John" that his tongue was joyfully and mysteriously set free for him to speak again, to the mysterious amazement and joy of all present.

    Frankly, there is nothing about the Second Joyful Mystery that is NOT joyful OR mysterious.

    In the Fourth Joyful Mystery, the Holy Family joyfully obey the tradition and Jєωιѕн law whereby a newborn child is taken to the temple to be presented to God.  In some Eastern Rite baptisms, the priest physically carries the baby around the altar which is a mysterious carry-over from this ancient rite.  St. Simeon and St. Anna mysteriously pronounce a prophesy upon seeing the Christ child, and St. Mary and St. Joseph are filled with joy hearing them and seeing their response to Our Lord, but we are given that the content of their prophesy was mysteriously painful to them (a sword of sorrow shall pierce thy soul). The juxtaposition of joy and sorrow is most mysterious. Whether we consider the circuмcision of Jesus or the purification of Mary, it is mysterious, because by shedding His precious blood in that ceremony, Jesus could have thereby redeemed the world from sin, but chose to follow the will of the Father by following through with His passion and crucifixion. And why should one who is sinless and even immaculately conceived so as to have never been touched by sin, need purification?  These things were mysteriously and joyfully done so as to satisfy the law and to leave no place for accusation or calumny.

    Both these Mysteries are chock-full of joy and mystery, if you think about them.

    You can find some helpful sentences (10 each) and nice pictures for these 2 mysteries (as well as for the other 13) in the Library section, under "Let's Pray, Not Just Say, the Rosary," by Fr. Rooney.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline poche

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #4 on: August 16, 2016, 11:18:26 PM »
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  • The mysteries are such that even if we think we know everything we really don't know anything.
     :scratchchin: :scratchchin: :scratchchin:


    Offline TKGS

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #5 on: August 17, 2016, 06:31:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    Wasn't the Circuмcision 8 days after birth, and the Presentation 40?


    Yes.  I noticed this as well.  However, the Circuмcision is often meditated upon as well for the
    Fourth Mystery.

    Offline Arvinger

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #6 on: August 17, 2016, 07:48:36 AM »
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  • Regarding the Second Joyful Mystery, I would add that Luke 1 (in which the episode of Visitation is recorded) reveals that Our Lady is Ark of the New Covenant. There are striking parallels between Our Lady during the Visitation in Luke 1 and Ark of the Covenant in 2 Samuel 6, proving without any doubt that Mary is Ark of the New Covenant. Here is a good article on that:
    http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/mary-the-ark-of-the-new-covenant

    It is something I often think about in my meditations on 2nd Joyful Mystery.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #7 on: August 17, 2016, 08:50:22 AM »
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  • GREAT article!


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #8 on: August 17, 2016, 02:35:39 PM »
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  • What I think about for the 2nd is that Our Lady, despite just being honored as the Mother of God, goes to WAIT ON someone.  I imagine her in her humility doing menial chores and not thinking it beneath her, despite her great dignity.  I imagine her charity.  So, instead of sitting back like some earthly monarch demanding submission and honors, she sees it as an obligation to serve others.

    With the 4th, I imagine Our Lady holding up Our Infant Lord over an altar as if she were offering Mass, as a sacrifice to God the Father ... as if it were the consecration of the Mass.

    Offline Croixalist

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #9 on: August 17, 2016, 04:57:26 PM »
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  • A little known tradition is that when Ptolemy II Philadelphus commissioned the Septuagint to be translated, St. Simeon was one of the 72 elders. St. Simeon was looking over the Greek translation of Isaias when he came across chapter 7:14 and the word "parthenos" (virgin) had been put in place of the Hebrew word "‘alma" (young woman or maiden). He was about to correct it when an angel appeared to him and promised him that he would get to see the Virgin and her Child before he died if he kept the word as he found it. This was around 250 BC, so you can just imagine how old St. Simeon must have been... At least over 300 years old by the time he beheld Christ and His mother!

    St. Simeon represents the first title Our Lady ever had, and the emerging role of the Greeks in laying the linguistic foundation for the new Universal and Apostolic Mission of the Church. As long as there is a Catholic remnant of Greeks, there is hope of a restoration for their culture as well. They just have to drop their schismatic Palamist ways.    

    BTW, St. Simeon's body is actually very well preserved and is kept at Zadar, Croatia where his feast day is celebrated on October 8th every year. He's the only contemporary of Christ whose remains are in such good shape as far as I know.  
    Fortuna finem habet.

    Offline s2srea

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #10 on: August 17, 2016, 06:41:38 PM »
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    Offline nctradcath

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #11 on: August 17, 2016, 06:59:50 PM »
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  • S2rea,

    Do you have the last ten mysteries in that format?

    Offline s2srea

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #12 on: August 17, 2016, 09:26:32 PM »
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  • NCTradCath, no i dont. It was emailed to me and I remember having seen it from a couple years ago. But I do know of a work that I think is far more valuable and enriching, in my opinion:

    https://archive.org/details/bookholyrosary00formgoog

    Offline jen51

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #13 on: August 17, 2016, 09:47:14 PM »
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  • Sometimes I use this while praying the Rosary- especially if I'm going through times where distractions are particularly pesky.

    It helps me to understand the mysteries better as well.
    Religion clean and undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their tribulation: and to keep one's self unspotted from this world.
    ~James 1:27

    Offline Disputaciones

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    Having a hard time with the 2nd and 4th Joyful Mysteries
    « Reply #14 on: August 19, 2016, 03:04:02 PM »
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  • Thank you all for the posts and attachments; they certainly helped and now i feel better.

    EDIT: I just wanted to clarify that i meant no disrespect by putting joyful and mystery in quotation marks; i simply wanted to highlight those words.

    Maybe i should've used italics instead.