Author Topic: Guitar at Mass (Read 1480 times)

Sneakyticks · « **on:** May 13, 2014, 10:44:34 PM »

Is there any law at all before V-2 that prohibited using guitars during Mass, or is this just something that is disliked but something against which there is no actual law?

If there exists any information at all against using guitars at Mass, please share it.

Matthew · « **Reply #1 on:** May 13, 2014, 11:09:07 PM »

I can tell you that the Church has official, concrete guidelines about which instruments can be used at Mass.

The guitar is not one of them.

If that's not enough for some reason, I'm sure someone can give you the quote if you need it.

Matthew · « **Reply #2 on:** May 13, 2014, 11:13:09 PM »

De Musica Sacra:

Quote:
C. Sacred instrumental music.

68. Other instruments besides the organ, especially the smaller bowed instruments, may be used during the liturgical functions, particularly on days of greater solemnity. These may be used together with the organ or without it, for instrumental numbers or for accompanying the singing. However, the following rules derived from the principles stated above (no.60) are to strictly observed:

a) the instruments are truly suitable for sacred use;

b) they are to be played with such seriousness, and religious devotion that every suggestion of raucous secular music is avoided, and the devotion of the faithful is fostered;

c) the director, organist, and other instrumentalists should be well trained in instrumental techniques, and the laws of sacred music.

Also, St. Pius X wrote that woodwind instruments could be used in mass with the permission of the ordinary.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=30333&min=10&num=5

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #3 on:** May 13, 2014, 11:17:54 PM »

I found this:

Quote

Pope Pius X issued a motu proprio in 1903, Tra le Sollecitudini:

15. Although the music proper to the Church is purely vocal music, music with the accompaniment of the organ is also permitted. In some special cases, within due limits and with proper safeguards, other instruments may be allowed, but never without the special permission of the Ordinary, according to prescriptions of the Caeremoniale Episcoporum.

19. The employment of the piano is forbidden in church, as is also that of noisy or frivolous instruments such as drums, cymbals, bells and the like.

20. It is strictly forbidden to have bands play in church, and only in special cases with the consent of the Ordinary will it be permissible to admit wind instruments, limited in number, judiciously used, and proportioned to the size of the place provided the composition and accompaniment be written in grave and suitable style, and conform in all respects to that proper to the organ.

This formed the basis for De musica sacra et sacra liturgia issued by the Sacred Congregation of Rites in 1958:

68. Other instruments besides the organ, especially the smaller bowed instruments, may be used during the liturgical functions, particularly on days of greater solemnity. These may be used together with the organ or without it, for instrumental numbers of for accompanying the singing. However, the following rules ... are to strictly observed:

a) the instruments are truly suitable for sacred use;

b) they are to be played with such seriousness, and religious devotion that every suggestion of raucous secular music is avoided, and the devotion of the faithful is fostered;

c) the director, organist, and other instrumentalists should be well trained in instrumental techniques, and the laws of sacred music.

70. Musical instruments which by common acception, and use are suitable only for secular music must be entirely excluded from all liturgical functions, and private devotions.

But there are good people like Matthew on the forum who know sacred music inside out and can add much more.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #4 on:** May 13, 2014, 11:20:25 PM »

Quote

But there are good people like Matthew on the forum who know sacred music inside out and can add much more.

And sure enough, he posted 2 excellent answers just before mine! :dancing-banana:

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 13, 2014, 11:21:10 PM »

The Organ was the only musical instrument allowed in Catholic Music.
A guitar came in while Vatican 2 was in still in session.
I remember my first experience with a guitar mass in 1965 and we
were not warned about that it was going to be used. It was
sprung up on us.
My experience was the use of the guitar at mass was that it was
degrading and demeaned the purpose of the mass. The young
people seen to like it. However, the decline of the faith among
the youth begin with the introduction of the guitar and un Catholic
music. The youth saw that if the mass, and the change of
music contributed to the rebellion of the youth that resulted in
dropping out of Catholic practices.
When I graduated from parochial school in 1963, 100% of my
class were practicing Catholics. At my 30th High School Reunion,
I could not find one practicing Catholic.

JohnAnthonyMarie · « **Reply #6 on:** May 14, 2014, 12:23:26 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

...every suggestion of raucous secular music is avoided...

Say about forty or so years ago, as altar boy, I recall the music being more of a folk rock genre, which in hindsight makes sense somehow, given the sixties spirit of naturalism and all.

TKGS · « **Reply #7 on:** May 14, 2014, 08:14:38 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

I can tell you that the Church has official, concrete guidelines about which instruments can be used at Mass.

The guitar is not one of them.

What about a banjo or ukelele? :guitar:

Dolores · « **Reply #8 on:** May 14, 2014, 10:13:03 AM »

Quote from: RomanCatholic1953

The Organ was the only musical instrument allowed in Catholic Music.

As others have shown from the quotations they posted, this is not true.

JezusDeKoning · « **Reply #9 on:** May 14, 2014, 11:37:08 AM »

Quote from: Matthew

De Musica Sacra:

Quote:
C. Sacred instrumental music.

68. Other instruments besides the organ, especially the smaller bowed instruments, may be used during the liturgical functions, particularly on days of greater solemnity. These may be used together with the organ or without it, for instrumental numbers or for accompanying the singing. However, the following rules derived from the principles stated above (no.60) are to strictly observed:

a) the instruments are truly suitable for sacred use;

b) they are to be played with such seriousness, and religious devotion that every suggestion of raucous secular music is avoided, and the devotion of the faithful is fostered;

c) the director, organist, and other instrumentalists should be well trained in instrumental techniques, and the laws of sacred music.

Also, St. Pius X wrote that woodwind instruments could be used in mass with the permission of the ordinary.

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php?a=topic&t=30333&min=10&num=5

My guess is this was for those who wanted to use an already-written liturgical composition within the context of Holy Mass. Think Mozart's Coronation Mass or Faure's Requiem.

claudel · « **Reply #10 on:** May 14, 2014, 01:32:46 PM »

De Musica Sacra is pure Bugnini—if the words "pure" and "Bugnini" can stand in juxtaposition without causing an explosion. Virtually nothing in it about music departed from centuries-old practice. But its true purpose was to begin the conciliar revolution in the liturgy fully four years before the first session of the council and more than a year before the "inspiration" for the council came to Pope John XXIII. Why else declare that the Dialogue Mass, previously a tolerated exception, was now the ideal form for "full participation"? Why else allow the congregation to recite aloud or chant the Pater Noster in the Mass, a practice reserved to the priest since the very beginnings of the Church? Why else institute the abomination of a similar en masse chiming in at the second Domine Non Sum Dignus?

This is ground we've covered in depth before! Since Matthew is good enough to maintain the archives virtually unedited, occasional use of them is to be recommended to everyone hereabouts. In addition, the entirety of De Musica Sacra was posted several years ago by Hobbledehoy, the recent absence of whose postings and comments most of us are sensible enough to miss.

Matthew · « **Reply #11 on:** May 14, 2014, 03:27:43 PM »

Quote from: claudel

De Musica Sacra is pure Bugnini—if the words "pure" and "Bugnini" can stand in juxtaposition without causing an explosion. Virtually nothing in it about music departed from centuries-old practice. But its true purpose was to begin the conciliar revolution in the liturgy fully four years before the first session of the council and more than a year before the "inspiration" for the council came to Pope John XXIII. Why else declare that the Dialogue Mass, previously a tolerated exception, was now the ideal form for "full participation"? Why else allow the congregation to recite aloud or chant the Pater Noster in the Mass, a practice reserved to the priest since the very beginnings of the Church? Why else institute the abomination of a similar en masse chiming in at the second Domine Non Sum Dignus?

This is ground we've covered in depth before! Since Matthew is good enough to maintain the archives virtually unedited, occasional use of them is to be recommended to everyone hereabouts. In addition, the entirety of De Musica Sacra was posted several years ago by Hobbledehoy, the recent absence of whose postings and comments most of us are sensible enough to miss.

That thread is one of the many "buried treasures" on CathInfo. If anyone can find it, I would hope they'd post it here.

If De Musica Sacra says this much, I'd be more interested to read St. Pius X's guidelines.

claudel · « **Reply #12 on:** May 14, 2014, 03:34:17 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: claudel
De Musica Sacra is pure Bugnini—if the words "pure" and "Bugnini" can stand in juxtaposition without causing an explosion. Virtually nothing in it about music departed from centuries-old practice. But its true purpose was to begin the conciliar revolution in the liturgy fully four years before the first session of the council and more than a year before the "inspiration" for the council came to Pope John XXIII. Why else declare that the Dialogue Mass, previously a tolerated exception, was now the ideal form for "full participation"? Why else allow the congregation to recite aloud or chant the Pater Noster in the Mass, a practice reserved to the priest since the very beginnings of the Church? Why else institute the abomination of a similar en masse chiming in at the second Domine Non Sum Dignus?

This is ground we've covered in depth before! Since Matthew is good enough to maintain the archives virtually unedited, occasional use of them is to be recommended to everyone hereabouts. In addition, the entirety of De Musica Sacra was posted several years ago by Hobbledehoy, the recent absence of whose postings and comments most of us are sensible enough to miss.

That thread is one of the many "buried treasures" on CathInfo. If anyone can find it, I would hope they'd post it here.

If De Musica Sacra says this much, I'd be more interested to read St. Pius X's guidelines.

Here is a fresh link. The more the merrier, I suppose.

claudel · « **Reply #13 on:** May 15, 2014, 04:29:13 AM »

Quote from: claudel

Here is a fresh link. The more the merrier, I suppose.

For starters, paragraphs 31 and 32 are loaded with mischief.