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Author Topic: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants  (Read 304106 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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The issue identified in the subject of this thread was broached by Forlorn in a current thread on baptism of desire. In his last post in that thread, Forlorn wrote:


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I'm still confused though. The Catholic Encyclopedia says that the proposition that anyone is predestined to be damned has been condemned. This would surely include Tornpage's resolution of the issue(that God wishes to save all men only in that He created the means by which all men can be saved, and doesn't wish for the salvation of every individual, and therefore not offering salvific grace to all of them). But I can't actually find any condemnation of such. Trent merely condemns the proposition that everyone who isn't predestined for salvation is damned, which would still allow for the unbaptised infant being offered no way to save itself.

I'm not sure about anything here, to be honest. What's your own resolution of the issue?


The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy - page 18 - The Feeneyism Ghetto - Catholic Info (cathinfo.com)

In that post, Forlorn refers to a discussion I pointed him to in another Catholic forum, here:


1 Timothy 2:4 (forumotion.com)

I told Forlorn I'd move the discussion here, and I will begin it with a citation in Denzinger (Deferarri translation, 1954) to the central passage of Scripture with regard to God's will to save "all men," 1 Timothy 2:4, which states:

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[3] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, [4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Douay-Rheims Bible, 1 Timothy Chapter 2 (drbo.org)

The passage is cited in Denzinger 318, where the Council of Quiersy states:


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Chap. 3. Omnipotent God wishes all men without exception to be saved (1 Tim. 2:4) although not all will be saved. However, that certain ones are saved, is the gift of the one who saves; that certain ones perish, however, is the deserved punishment of those who perish.


The only other time the verse is referenced in Denzinger is by the First Vatican Council Council at 1794, where it is cited with reference to the Church's divine mission (see my remarks below), the part of the verse there cited being God's desire that "all men" "come to the knowledge of the truth."

The first thing I want to note regarding 1 Timothy 2:4 is the link between God's desire to save "all men" and His desire that the same group "come to the knowledge of the truth." As the second citation to the verse by the First Vatican Council indicates, the divine mission of the Church to "all men" - which we know is Scripturally framed as Jew and Gentile, male, female, etc. (see Galatians 3:26-29 etc.) - is being addressed here.

The question which Forlorn raised implicates whether God's desire to save "all men" is broader than merely an indication that His salvation is universal and open to "all men" without racial or any other distinction via the Church - i.e., does it encompass every single soul that has been generated in the womb or thereafter born which dies before baptism, the "only remedy" to men not capable of what Pius XII referred to as the "act of love" that requires rational choice and mature, informed and responsible will (as to the only remedy, see Denzinger 712 (Florence), 791 (Trent))?

The second point I want to make is as to the the language of the Council of Quiersy cited above. Note that the Council, after citing 1 Tim. 2:4, states "that certain ones perish, however, is the deserved punishment of those who perish" (emphasis added).

As Ladislaus pointed out in his response to Forlorn in the above-referenced thread, infants who die without baptism do not "perish" and suffer the damnation and torment of the damned who "deserve" it (Quiersy), but go to Limbo. I believe that is why the doctrine of Limbo, while not defined as de fide dogma, is essential to the truth and consistency of our Catholic faith.

Of course, this prescinds from the point raised by Forlorn, since those infants, while not damned, are indeed not "saved" in heaven.

I will continue with a discussion of St. Thomas's reflections on the meaning of 1 Tim 2:4's reference to God's desire to save "all men" in the Summa Theologica, First Part, Question 19, Article 6.

Of course I open this up for comment and the reflections of others who have studied the Scriptures and the Church's teaching on this issue.

DR






Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2021, 12:19:43 PM »
I meant to continue this topic but sort of forgot about it. I think predestination, and the divine election of the saints to glory, is an important topic, and a proper understanding of it would put a lot in focus - EENS, BOD, LIMBO, etc.  I think ignorance or error on this topic is a large cause of the Crisis (similarly to Father Feeney's believing EENS was before VII); if one gets predestination right, one will likely get EENS right. 

The case of the eternal fate of an unbaptized infant puts the question/issue in intense focus. This was ably expressed thus:


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THE DEATH of an unbaptized infant presents Catholic theologians with a poignant problem. The dawn star of Christian culture had hardly risen when men first raised the question, and it has continued to echo through the centuries. There are reasons enough for the persistent reappearance of the difficulty. The fate of an unbaptized child is closely tied to several highly volatile questions: original sin, the necessity of baptism, the salvific will of God. Each of these issues is a vital nerve in the body of Catholic doctrine, and each can be studied with clinical precision in the person of an unbaptized child. The question, then, is not pure pedantry; and if it seems a discouraging one, we have the admonition of St. Gregory of Nyssa: "I venture to assert that it is not right to omit the examination which is within the range of our ability, or to leave the question here raised without making any inquiries or having any ideas about it."

(LIMBO: A THEOLOGICAL EVALUATION by GEORGE J. DYER, 1958)


So I continue with the thought of St. Thomas on God's will to save all men, from his Summa, First Part, Question 19, Article 6, Objection 1:



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Article 6. Whether the will of God is always fulfilled?

Objection 1. It seems that the will of God is not always fulfilled. For the Apostle says (1 Timothy 2:4): "God will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth." But this does not happen. Therefore the will of God is not always fulfilled.

. . . 


Reply to Objection 1. The words of the Apostle, "God will have all men to be saved," etc. can be understood in three ways.

First, by a restricted application, in which case they would mean, as Augustine says (De praed. sanct. i, 8: Enchiridion 103), "God wills all men to be saved that are saved, not because there is no man whom He does not wish saved, but because there is no man saved whose salvation He does not will."

Secondly, they can be understood as applying to every class of individuals, not to every individual of each class; in which case they mean that God wills some men of every class and condition to be saved, males and females, Jews and Gentiles, great and small, but not all of every condition.

Thirdly, according to Damascene (De Fide Orth. ii, 29), they are understood of the antecedent will of God; not of the consequent will. This distinction must not be taken as applying to the divine will itself, in which there is nothing antecedent nor consequent, but to the things willed.


To understand this we must consider that everything, in so far as it is good, is willed by God. A thing taken in its primary sense, and absolutely considered, may be good or evil, and yet when some additional circuмstances are taken into account, by a consequent consideration may be changed into the contrary. Thus that a man should live is good; and that a man should be killed is evil, absolutely considered. But if in a particular case we add that a man is a murderer or dangerous to society, to kill him is a good; that he live is an evil. Hence it may be said of a just judge, that antecedently he wills all men to live; but consequently wills the murderer to be hanged. In the same way God antecedently wills all men to be saved, but consequently wills some to be damned, as His justice exacts. Nor do we will simply, what we will antecedently, but rather we will it in a qualified manner; for the will is directed to things as they are in themselves, and in themselves they exist under particular qualifications. Hence we will a thing simply inasmuch as we will it when all particular circuмstances are considered; and this is what is meant by willing consequently. Thus it may be said that a just judge wills simply the hanging of a murderer, but in a qualified manner he would will him to live, to wit, inasmuch as he is a man. Such a qualified will may be called a willingness rather than an absolute will. Thus it is clear that whatever God simply wills takes place; although what He wills antecedently may not take place.

SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: The will of God (Prima Pars, Q. 19) (newadvent.org)








Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2021, 12:26:25 PM »
Next, St. Thomas on predestination itself, Summa, First Part, Question 23, Article 5, Objection 3:


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Objection 3. Further, "There is no injustice in God" (Romans 9:14). Now it would seem unjust that unequal things be given to equals. But all men are equal as regards both nature and original sin; and inequality in them arises from the merits or demerits of their actions. Therefore God does not prepare unequal things for men by predestinating and reprobating, unless through the foreknowledge of their merits and demerits.



Reply to Objection 3.The reason for the predestination of some, and reprobation of others, must be sought for in the goodness of God. Thus He is said to have made all things through His goodness, so that the divine goodness might be represented in things. Now it is necessary that God's goodness, which in itself is one and undivided, should be manifested in many ways in His creation; because creatures in themselves cannot attain to the simplicity of God. Thus it is that for the completion of the universe there are required different grades of being; some of which hold a high and some a low place in the universe. That this multiformity of grades may be preserved in things, God allows some evils, lest many good things should never happen, as was said above (Question 22, Article 2). Let us then consider the whole of the human race, as we consider the whole universe. God wills to manifest His goodness in men; in respect to those whom He predestines, by means of His mercy, as sparing them; and in respect of others, whom he reprobates, by means of His justice, in punishing them. This is the reason why God elects some and rejects others. To this the Apostle refers, saying (Romans 9:22-23): "What if God, willing to show His wrath [that is, the vengeance of His justice], and to make His power known, endured [that is, permitted] with much patience vessels of wrath, fitted for destruction; that He might show the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He hath prepared unto glory" and (2 Timothy 2:20): "But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver; but also of wood and of earth; and some, indeed, unto honor, but some unto dishonor." Yet why He chooses some for glory, and reprobates others, has no reason, except the divine will. Whence Augustine says (Tract. xxvi. in Joan.): "Why He draws one, and another He draws not, seek not to judge, if thou dost not wish to err." Thus too, in the things of nature, a reason can be assigned, since primary matter is altogether uniform, why one part of it was fashioned by God from the beginning under the form of fire, another under the form of earth, that there might be a diversity of species in things of nature. Yet why this particular part of matter is under this particular form, and that under another, depends upon the simple will of God; as from the simple will of the artificer it depends that this stone is in part of the wall, and that in another; although the plan requires that some stones should be in this place, and some in that place. Neither on this account can there be said to be injustice in God, if He prepares unequal lots for not unequal things. This would be altogether contrary to the notion of justice, if the effect of predestination were granted as a debt, and not gratuitously. In things which are given gratuitously, a person can give more or less, just as he pleases (provided he deprives nobody of his due), without any infringement of justice. This is what the master of the house said: "Take what is thine, and go thy way. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will?" (Matthew 20:14-15).


SUMMA THEOLOGIAE: Predestination (Prima Pars, Q. 23) (newadvent.org)


Offline DecemRationis

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Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2021, 03:28:21 PM »
Continuing with another one of the seminal passages on the issue, from St. Alphonsus's Prayer - The Great Means of Obtaining Salvation, Part II, Chapter 1(3):




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Ch 3. Children who die without Baptism

Here it only remains for us to answer the objection which is drawn from children being lost when they die before Baptism, and before they come to the use of reason. If God wills all to be saved, it is objected, how is it that these children perish without any fault of their own, since God gives them no assistance to attain eternal salvation? There are two answers to this objection, the latter more correct than the former, I will state them briefly.

First, it is answered that God, by antecedent will, wishes all to be saved, and therefore has granted universal means for the salvation of all; but these means at times fail of their effect, either by reason of the unwillingness of some persons to avail themselves of them, or because others are unable to make use of them, on account of secondary causes [such as the death of children], whose course God is not bound to change, after having disposed the whole according to the just judgment of His general Providence; all this is collected from what St. Thomas says: Jesus Christ offered His merits for all men, and instituted Baptism for all; but the application of this means of salvation, so far as relates to children who die before the use of reason, is not prevented by the direct will of God, but by a merely permissive will; because as He is the general provider of all things, He is not bound to disturb the general order, to provide for the particular order.


The second answer is, that to perish is not the same as not to be blessed: since eternal happiness is a gift entirely gratuitous; and therefore the want of it is not a punishment. The opinion, therefore, of St. Thomas-----is very just, that children who die in infancy have neither the pain of sense nor the pain of loss; not the pain of sense, he says, "because pain of sense corresponds to conversion to creatures; and in Original Sin there is not conversion to creatures" [as the fault is not our own], "and therefore pain of sense is not due to Original Sin;" because Original Sin does not imply an act. [De Mal. q. 5, a. 2]

Objectors oppose to this the teaching of St. Augustine, who in some places shows that his opinion was that children are condemned even to the pain of sense. But in another place he declares that he was very much confused about this point. These are his words: When I come to the punishment of infants, I find myself [believe me] in great straits; nor can I at all find anything to say." [Epist. 166, E. B.] And in another place he writes, that it may be said that such children receive neither reward nor punishment: "Nor need we fear that it is impossible there should be a middle sentence between reward and punishment; since their life was midway between sin and good works." [De Lib. Ar. 1, 3, c. 23] This was directly affirmed by St. Gregory nαzιanzen: "Children will be sentenced by the just judge neither to the glory of Heaven nor to punishment." St. Gregory of Nyssa was of the same opinion: "The premature death of children shows that they who have thus ceased to live will not be in pain and unhappiness."

And as far as relates to the pain of loss, although these children are excluded from glory, nevertheless St. Thomas, [In 2 Sent. d. 33, q. 2, a. 2] who had reflected most deeply on this point, teaches that no one feels pain for the want of that good of which he is not capable; so that as no man grieves that he cannot fly, or no private person that he is not emperor, so these children feel no pain at being deprived of the glory of which they were never capable; since they could never pretend to it either by the principles of nature, or by their own merits.

St. Thomas adds, in another place, [De Mal. q. 5, a. 3] a further reason, which is, that the supernatural knowledge of glory comes only by means of actual faith, which transcends all natural knowledge; so that children can never feel pain for the privation of that glory, of which they never had a supernatural knowledge.

He further says, in the former passage, that such children will not only not grieve for the loss of eternal happiness, but will, moreover, have pleasure in their natural gifts; and will even in some way enjoy God, so far as is implied in natural knowledge, and in natural love: "Rather will they rejoice in this, that they will participate much in the Divine goodness, and in natural perfections." And he immediately adds, that although they will be separated from God, as regards the union of glory, nevertheless 'they will be united with Him by participation of natural gifts; and so will even be able to rejoice in Him with a natural knowledge and love." [In 2 Sent. d. 33, q. 2, a. 2]



http://www.catholictreasury.info/books/prayer/pr18.php#bk3

At this point, I'm merely setting the ground work of important passages dealing with God's will to save "all" men, which will informs His predestination of the saints and the institution of the saving sacrament of baptism. 

I'll likely next turn to solid, traditional Catholic annotations of the Scriptures - the notes of the original Rheims annotators of the DR New Testament translation, and the the Haydock Bible. And then some St. Augustine, whose commentary on this issue is spread out more widely through his works, e.g. his multiple works on the Pelagian heresy.  But I am aware of at least several very relevant passages that I'll post here. 


Re: God's salvific will to save "all men" and the death of unbaptized infants
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2021, 07:15:39 PM »
Good topic, Decem!


I think it's about providence, not predestination. Like St. Alphonsus says (Reply #3). I think, his first answer is key, although he deems the latter "more correct".

Assuming, I'm not in the state of grace. Even if God wills that I repent my sins, he may allow that I die right now before even having a chance to do so.

How?

He knows by providence in advance whether I will or I won't repent. I case I won't, there is no reason to wait and give me a chance.

Same thing with unbaptized children who die before the age of reason. God knows in advance that in case they'd live on, they'd later reject Him, anyway.



An aside: This puts me on the same foot with unbaptized children. With respect to the question, I am not privileged, just because I'm baptized. The unbaptized at least is in limbo. If I'm cut off, because God knows in advance that I won't make it to heaven anyway, then I'll go to hell, below limbo. And if I live to be 90 or 110, still the same result.