Author Topic: German Bible and pre 1962 Missle (Read 2027 times)

Spork · « **on:** November 23, 2011, 09:58:14 PM »

I am looking for the traditionally approved Bible in modern German. The Douay Rheims of the German language, if you will. Are either the Emser version or the Dietenberger translations still in use and approved? What about the Mentelin edition? I am also looking to purchase a 1962(or pre 1962) Missle. Thanks to all for contributions. God Bless, S.

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #1 on:** November 24, 2011, 01:03:55 AM »

Dear Spork!

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a "German Douay Rheims" Bible, as there is a multitude of different translations around. The latest translations are, of course, extremely modernist. The Novus Ordo uses a translation meant to "unify" Protestants and Catholics and to be used by both - but the Protestants rejected it, as it is just too crazy.
Also, Germans are not as fond of the usage of antiquated language in liturgy or scripture as the English are.

In any case: Try to find the translation of Joseph Franz von Allioli ( †1873), ("Allioli-Bibel"), much used in the latter part of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century.
The language is of course somewhat antiquated, and older versions might be written in Gothic ("Fraktur") font.

I don´t even have the Allioli-Bibel myself, I am using the "Hamp-Stenzel-Kürzinger" edition of the early 60´s, not exactly the ideal and based on the Hebrew, not the Vulgate.

You are looking for a German Missal? Look for "Schott Messbuch", they reprinted the 1962, but older versions are largely available.

Spork · « **Reply #2 on:** November 24, 2011, 07:46:38 AM »

Quote from: Pyrrhos

Dear Spork!

Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a "German Douay Rheims" Bible, as there is a multitude of different translations around. The latest translations are, of course, extremely modernist. The Novus Ordo uses a translation meant to "unify" Protestants and Catholics and to be used by both - but the Protestants rejected it, as it is just too crazy.
Also, Germans are not as fond of the usage of antiquated language in liturgy or scripture as the English are.

In any case: Try to find the translation of Joseph Franz von Allioli ( †1873), ("Allioli-Bibel"), much used in the latter part of the 19th and beginning of the 20th century.
The language is of course somewhat antiquated, and older versions might be written in Gothic ("Fraktur") font.

I don´t even have the Allioli-Bibel myself, I am using the "Hamp-Stenzel-Kürzinger" edition of the early 60´s, not exactly the ideal and based on the Hebrew, not the Vulgate.

You are looking for a German Missal? Look for "Schott Messbuch", they reprinted the 1962, but older versions are largely available.

Liebe Pyrrhos: Vielen Dank. Darf ich denn umfragen: was benutzt SSPX oder FSSP Deutschlands? Ich glaub's das ich im Ebay ein Schott Messbuch fand. Wir werden sehen. Zur Zeit lerne ich Deutsch und will mehr auf Deutsch beten, um zu lernen und am meistens, Gott zu loben!

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #3 on:** November 24, 2011, 08:09:38 AM »

Lieber Spork!

Im deutschen Ebay werden zahlreiche Schott Messbücher angeboten. Wenn Sie den Messen der FSSP oder FSSPX (im Deutschen sprechen wir meistens von der Pius- bzw. Petrusbruderschaft) beiwohnen, empfehle ich Ihnen natürlich das neu aufgelegte 1962er Messbuch.

Ältere Ausgaben gibt es sogar im amerikanischen Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017UCDV6/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0017UCDV6&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20

Ich glaube nicht, dass die (F)SSPX oder FSSP eine Bibelausgabe verpflichten, da es, wie gesagt, eine zu große Auswahlmöglichkeit gibt. Mir wurde in der SSPX aber die genannte Allioli-Bibel empfohlen.

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #4 on:** November 24, 2011, 08:42:06 AM »

Unfortunately, I could only find one affordable version of the New Testament "Allioli Bibel" in the US:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1095580864&searchurl=bsi%3D30%26kn%3Dallioli%26n%3D200000237%26x%3D0%26y%3D0

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #5 on:** November 24, 2011, 12:38:09 PM »

Sorry for bumping this thread again, but I guess it would be the cheapest if you would actually buy a newer version FROM Germany.

Like this one:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=1727725005&searchurl=kn%3Dallioli%26sts%3Dt%26x%3D0%26y%3D0

I would offer you to buy it for you, but it would not be much less expensive, anyway.

It is just the New Testament, though. In regards to the old one, the Allioli-translations are hard to find. You would have to go for more modern translations, I am afraid.

The version you mentioned in your first postings are all antiquated. Like I said, sticking to older language must be a special English thing, at least it is not done (to that extent) in the German Catholic realm.

Spork · « **Reply #6 on:** November 24, 2011, 01:48:47 PM »

Bump all you want. This is a great information and I thank you kindly. Finding a Missal is not too much of a problem but wading through the idiosyncrasies of Bible translations that are 'approved' and used by traditionalists appears to be an expensive pursuit. I will certainly become a Missal and use that de riguer at my TLM and I hope one day to afford a German (traditional) Bible. I am planning on a Germany trip summer 2012. Maybe then I can pick one. I will be in Bavaria. Happy Thanksgiving, Mein Herr.

Pyrrhos · « **Reply #7 on:** November 25, 2011, 02:02:20 AM »

Believe it or not, but I have the very same problem.

I´d like to get the three-volume Latin-German Allioli-bible, but 250 Euro are a little bit too much for me...

Sigismund · « **Reply #8 on:** November 26, 2011, 02:00:15 PM »

Quote from: Pyrrhos

The Novus Ordo uses a translation meant to "unify" Protestants and Catholics and to be used by both - but the Protestants rejected it, as it is just too crazy.

Thanks for a good laugh. I once heard a Lutheran minister express profound disgust at the New American Bible. He was particularly annoyed that they changed "No room in the inn" to "No room in the place where travelers lodged" "What is wrong with inn?" he fumed. "We still have inns. Are modern Catholics so dense that they don't know what an inn? I though my congregants were dense, but good heavens!" He was also appalled that the editors of the NAB move verses around in the Old Testament to put them in the order they think they should have been in in the first place. He described that as "astonishing arrogance of a sort you would think one would have to be an atheist to have".