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Author Topic: From Holy Spirit to calling God You  (Read 10292 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2019, 04:04:05 PM »
I've observed the only time prots and NOers *don't* use "Holy Spirit" and use "Holy Ghost" instead, is when they are trying to attribute complete orthodoxy to whatever it is that they are "preaching".

I recall a very good priest in the late 60s who was expelled from his rectory by his bishop for refusing to go along with the revolution, he used both Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit, not always in the same sermon though. One of the men asked him about it at breakfast, he said that he often used "Holy Spirit" as a tool "to show the heretics that I can speak their language as well as they can, except when I preach, I preach Catholicism, not hootananyism".

It really does not matter which one is used, but for us, we are all more familiar and comfortable with Holy Ghost, whereas Holy Spirit rings as a type of deceit or slander to our ears because of it being stolen and habitually [mis]used and abused by the enemy.

Anyway, my prayer book is from 1961 and has You and Yours all over the place in it - I never really paid much attention to it till now.




Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2019, 04:04:19 PM »
Your questions are moronic ...
Then you should have no problem answering them. Answer the  questions

Quote
So we should talk to God informally, like we talk to nobodies? Do you agree with todays missals calling God you?

Are you gαy or melancholic?


Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2019, 04:15:21 PM »
I have in my hands a 1966 missal, I went to look up the opening of the mass, the beautiful Psalm 42 which converted me, and it is gone. Totally eliminated. So I'll go elsewhere to give examples of "you" and you tell me if a king was ever addressed as this?

O God, You give us life again
And Your people will rejoice in You
Show us Lord Your kindness
And grant us Your salvation
O Lord hear my prayer
And let my cry come to You

Take away from us our sins O Lord, we beseech You...

We beseech You, by the merits of your saints....
You would use "you" with a King. "Your Majesty" not "thy Majesty". 
Citing times they use "you" is not proof that "you" is informal. Once again, "you" is neither formal nor informal. The same as its translation in Latin. Whereas "thou" when used in the 1855 Missal you cited, WAS INFORMAL. 

Then you should have no problem answering them. Answer the  questions

Are you gαy or melancholic?

I already addressed both questions, imbecile. I'll repeat: As to the first, "you" is not informal, whereas "thou" in the old Missals was. So your accusations apply to the OLD Missals and not the new ones.

As for the second, I already said I don't "agree" with the Missals in that I really don't care about "you" vs "thou" as you've given absolutely no reason why "you" is less appropriate than "thou". The usage of "you" exactly mirrors the Latin equivalent, and is in fact less informal than "thou" was in the old translations. Your complete inability to actually respond to and attempt to refute my points is what's effeminate here, you're arguing with emotion.

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2019, 04:22:27 PM »
And yet, all the English Bible translations from back then used "thou" and "thee". Similarly the Germans always used "du" for God. In Latin, Hebrew, etc. there's no distinction between formal and informal versions of the 2nd person singular. Most languages with a distinction use the informal version. A notable exception is French, but there's plenty of usage of "tu" for God even in French dating back centuries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%E2%80%93V_distinction
I'd also question the assumption that "thee" and "thou" are formal in modern English. They're just archaic. No one addresses a President or King or anyone as "thou"(it's Your Majesty, not Thy Majesty). People only do it with God because they're referencing old translations, which is perfectly fine of course, but to act as if saying the general "you"(which is used both formally and informally in modern English) is disrespectful when in fact "thou" and "thee" were brought in when they were informal, is just plain wrong.
It would be clearer to say that in the past "thou" was a familiar version, rather than an informal version.  It was used to show the closeness and intimacy of the our relationship with God.  At that time "you" was used with strangers, but it was not impolite or disrespectful to use "thou" with family and friends.

As Matthew said, however, the historical usage of these words is irrelevant. Now,"thou" is referred to as hieratic language, that is, a kind of formal language set apart for solemn and religious contexts.  It is not correct to call it archaic, since it is still in current use.  Nor is it "referencing old translations."

As we use it today, "thou" fosters a sense of the sacred because this is special language for God, while "you" is the everyday term.  I might not go as far as calling "you" disrespectful, but it is more appropriate to have special language.  Our worship is full of sacred things set apart for God.  The vestments are only for use in liturgy.  The Chalice is not used when one wants a drink of water.

We live in a culture greatly lacking in a sense of the sacred, so it makes sense that it is good to use words that foster it.

Re: From Holy Spirit to calling God You
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2019, 04:22:34 PM »
I already addressed both questions, imbecile. 
Sorry I even asked you,  I should have left it as Matthew wrote:
Quote
Yes, but this is 2019, not some earlier point in history. Today, "Thee" and "Thou" are formal, so it's how WE (in 2019) talk to God. "You" and "Your" is how we talk to the garbage man.
If they were reversed in 1600, that is completely irrelevant.
I need to remember to look at peoples reputation scores before I bother to ask them anything.