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Author Topic: Francis Issues Desiderio Desideravi on Mass  (Read 17801 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Francis Issues Desiderio Desideravi on Mass
« Reply #115 on: June 30, 2022, 03:19:00 PM »
Sitting in Moses' seat pales in comparison to sitting in Christ's Seat.

Vermont, that sounds good, but it was the same Chair, with the same infallibility in teaching: both spoke for God, and taught with His authority.  Listen to the Scriptures: the example of Israel is an example for our instruction:

Quote
Romans 15:4 - For what things soever were written, were written for our learning: that through patience and the comfort of the scriptures, we might have hope

1 Cor. 10:11 - Now all these things happened to them in figure: and they are written for our correction, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Again, Our Lord told us that the Pharisees "sat in Moses seat" and had his authority, and that they should be listened to: do what they say, etc.. But he also said they could (and did) teach some things that were contrary to the word of God.

See the attached annotations from the original, Douay translation (1609) of Deuteronomy 17:9.


Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: Francis Issues Desiderio Desideravi on Mass
« Reply #116 on: July 01, 2022, 12:47:50 AM »
What Catholics do not do, is we do not expel popes from the Church as if that is our religious obligation - not even in this day and age.

No, but they can "expel" (what is this, grade school?) and have, in recent times, expelled themselves.  What is more, the entity from which they have expelled themselves is clearly NOT Holy Mother Church -- which is why there is any resistance at all, much less one that is long-standing and worldwide -- but rather a ravenous Whore who devours her own children, decade after decade.  Holy Church, like Her Master before Her, died, at least in a mystical sense -- Her body and Her soul were separated.  God alone can reunite them and it will be glorious to behold.  Hold fast in what promise to be wild days ahead.  Godspeed.


Offline gladius_veritatis

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Re: Francis Issues Desiderio Desideravi on Mass
« Reply #117 on: July 01, 2022, 12:51:25 AM »
It only “instructs” in an indirect way, via “lex orandi, lex credentials.”

Are "lex credentials" akin to "street cred"?

Online Stubborn

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Re: Francis Issues Desiderio Desideravi on Mass
« Reply #118 on: July 01, 2022, 06:10:42 AM »
No, but they can "expel" (what is this, grade school?) and have, in recent times, expelled themselves.  What is more, the entity from which they have expelled themselves is clearly NOT Holy Mother Church -- which is why there is any resistance at all, much less one that is long-standing and worldwide -- but rather a ravenous Whore who devours her own children, decade after decade.  Holy Church, like Her Master before Her, died, at least in a mystical sense -- Her body and Her soul were separated.  God alone can reunite them and it will be glorious to behold.  Hold fast in what promise to be wild days ahead.  Godspeed.

Yes, expelled is akin to grade or elementary school, as it is through the most fundamental, basic and elementary Catholic theology that we must look at this matter of the pope. Do *that* and all the advanced, sophisticated and technical theological ideas and opinions cast before us here on CI fall apart.

It is the fundamentals, the basic tenets of our holy religion that the sedes abandon - as they must in order to make it just confusing enough through their  advanced theology to conform to their own narrative.

Holy Mother the Church will remain - and while, like Christ, she may get beaten and bruised, she will most certainly, like Christ, remain spotless until the end of time. A hundred heretic popes and hierarchy, along with all the billions of sheep that  follow them and help to spread the heresies will never change that.

This above truth is all but inconceivable to sedes, at least the sedes who insist the Church must have legitimate popes or it is/will be destroyed - meanwhile, the sedes themselves insist that for 60+ years there has been no pope, yet they have kept the faith for those 60+ years without one thank you very much.


Re: Francis Issues Desiderio Desideravi on Mass
« Reply #119 on: July 01, 2022, 06:29:38 AM »
Yes, expelled is akin to grade or elementary school, as it is through the most fundamental, basic and elementary Catholic theology that we must look at this matter of the pope. Do *that* and all the advanced, sophisticated and technical theological ideas and opinions cast before us here on CI fall apart.

It is the fundamentals, the basic tenets of our holy religion that the sedes abandon - as they must in order to make it just confusing enough through their  advanced theology to conform to their own narrative.

Holy Mother the Church will remain - and while, like Christ, she may get beaten and bruised, she will most certainly, like Christ, remain spotless until the end of time. A hundred heretic popes and hierarchy, along with all the billions of sheep that  follow them and help to spread the heresies will never change that.

This above truth is all but inconceivable to sedes, at least the sedes who insist the Church must have legitimate popes or it is/will be destroyed - meanwhile, the sedes themselves insist that for 60+ years there has been no pope, yet they have kept the faith for those 60+ years without one thank you very much.
The question is not whether she will get beaten and bruised, that has obviously happened. But can the Church beat and bruise herself? Obviously not, and her faith must remain spotless, of course, which all have understood to mean she can promulgate no heresy.


There is no precedent of a heretical pope. On the other hand, we have much precedent on the vacancy of the See. Please illuminate me, after how long a vacancy has the Church defected? Is it 3 years? Ten and a half and three days? Thirty eight?
Obviously a defection must have a qualitative difference from a mere vacancy, a difference which only a hypothetical heretical pope can constitute.

I seriously can't understand how one may think that one moment the Church is fine and the other it has defected by the mere passage of time. Ridiculous. Please stop saying that because I know you don't believe it.

Here we have the Church teaching what constitutes defection:

These matters having been treated with thorough-going exactness, we bear in mind what was promised about the holy Church and Him who said that the gates of hell will not prevail against it (by these we understand the death-dealing tongues of heretics); we also bear in mind what was prophesied about the church by Hosea when he said, I shall betroth you to me in faithfulness and you shall know the Lord; and we count along with the devil, the father of lies, the uncontrolled tongues of heretics and their heretical writings, together with the heretics themselves who have persisted in their heresy even to death.
~ Second Council of Constantinople, Sentence against the Three Chapters



Was this complex theology? I seriously hope not.