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Offline Matthew

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Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
« on: September 06, 2018, 10:29:37 AM »
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  • Any Liturgical experts out there?

    I am trying to figure out what Mass will be said on Sunday, October 7th. That Sunday happens to be the 20th Sunday after Pentecost, but it also falls on October 7, which is the Feast of the Holy Rosary.

    Does the priest have a choice? Which one takes precedence over the other?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #1 on: September 06, 2018, 10:41:29 AM »
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  • What "Class" Feast is the Holy Rosary?

    John XXIII made most Sundays "Class II".  So the Holy Rosary would have to be a "Class I" Feast to replace it.  Otherwise, I think you'd do a commemoration.  I'm not sure what happens in the case of a tie, if they're both "Class II".


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #2 on: September 06, 2018, 10:49:14 AM »
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  • Any Liturgical experts out there?

    I am trying to figure out what Mass will be said on Sunday, October 7th. That Sunday happens to be the 20th Sunday after Pentecost, but it also falls on October 7, which is the Feast of the Holy Rosary.

    Does the priest have a choice? Which one takes precedence over the other?
    .
    You have to choose between the Traditional Calendar and the updated Bugniniite of the SSPX and CMRI calendar. 
    .
    The longstanding tradition of the Catholic Church has the following:
    .
    Double  1st Class (White)
    Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary
    Twentieth Sunday after Pentecost
    St. Mark, Pope, Confessor 
    Mass:  Proper of Feast.
    "Gaudeamus" Gloria, 2nd of Sunday, 3rd of St. Mark. 
    Credo, Preface of the Blessed Virgin
    ("Et te in Festivitate").
    Ite, Last Gospel of Sunday. 
    .
    For those unaware of the fine points, when a major feast displaces the regular Sunday liturgy, in order for the Gospel of that Sunday to still be heard (20th after Pent.), it is read in lieu of the 1st chapter of St. John for the Last Gospel at the end of Mass.
    .
    This was one of the Bugnini changes that was put into effect to prepare for the excuse to roll out the 3-year cycle of Newmass.
    You see, by getting rid of many of the Scripture readings they could later complain that there were insufficient Scripture readings.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #3 on: September 07, 2018, 03:56:18 AM »
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  • Any Liturgical experts out there?

    I am trying to figure out what Mass will be said on Sunday, October 7th. That Sunday happens to be the 20th Sunday after Pentecost, but it also falls on October 7, which is the Feast of the Holy Rosary.

    Does the priest have a choice? Which one takes precedence over the other?
    How about if the priest celebrates the mass of the 20th Sunday after Pentecost but also mentions the Holy Rosary in his homily?

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #4 on: September 07, 2018, 04:05:34 AM »
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  • How about if the priest celebrates the mass of the 20th Sunday after Pentecost but also mentions the Holy Rosary in his homily?
    .
    Traditional priests don't give a homily.  They give a sermon, but anyway, that's not part of Mass.
    How about if he simply writes his own liturgy and does whatever he feels like doing which could change from minute to minute?
    Light a campfire, stand in a circle around it, sing "On Eagle's Wings" and stuff like that? 
    He could use the winning numbers from Bingo the night before to decide what the "readings" chapter and verse should be.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #5 on: September 07, 2018, 08:40:43 AM »
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  • Double  1st Class (White)
    Most Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary

    John XXIII got rid of this designation.  Matthew follows the 1962 Missal, which would have this feast either as Second or Third Class.  My guess would be Second.  So it would be a tie for an ordinary Sunday.  Not sure how ties are resolved.  I used to know this stuff but can't remember anymore.  I would GUESS that in the case of a tie, the Sunday would take precedence, and the Holy Rosary would get a Commemoration.  But that's just a guess.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #6 on: September 07, 2018, 08:41:18 AM »
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  • This is one of my favorite feasts, since it's also my wedding anniversary.

    Offline Motorede

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #7 on: September 07, 2018, 10:45:10 AM »
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  • Any Liturgical experts out there?

    I am trying to figure out what Mass will be said on Sunday, October 7th. That Sunday happens to be the 20th Sunday after Pentecost, but it also falls on October 7, which is the Feast of the Holy Rosary.

    Does the priest have a choice? Which one takes precedence over the other?
    Sundays in Pentecost are 2nd class feasts. Sundays are the Lord's day. Any feast of the 2nd class like the rosary would have a commemoration in the Sunday Mass.


    Offline poche

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #8 on: September 07, 2018, 11:06:01 PM »
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  • .
    Traditional priests don't give a homily.  They give a sermon, but anyway, that's not part of Mass.
    How about if he simply writes his own liturgy and does whatever he feels like doing which could change from minute to minute?
    Light a campfire, stand in a circle around it, sing "On Eagle's Wings" and stuff like that?
    He could use the winning numbers from Bingo the night before to decide what the "readings" chapter and verse should be.
    Why not celebrate the mass of the 20th Sunday and in his sermon speak of the Blessed Virgin and the Holy Rosary. That way he's not writing his own liturgy or sitting around campfires or anything like that. .   

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #9 on: September 08, 2018, 01:46:07 AM »
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  • John XXIII got rid of this designation.  Matthew follows the 1962 Missal, which would have this feast either as Second or Third Class.  My guess would be Second.  So it would be a tie for an ordinary Sunday.  Not sure how ties are resolved.  I used to know this stuff but can't remember anymore.  I would GUESS that in the case of a tie, the Sunday would take precedence, and the Holy Rosary would get a Commemoration.  But that's just a guess.
    .
    Maybe a "tie" should be resolved in favor of how the Church did things before the unclean spirit of Vat.II corruption set in.
    .
    Perhaps you're unaware of the history, but even ABL was reverting to the longstanding tradition of the Church before the Bugniniite Modernism was forced down our throats, but along the way under controversy with dissidents and in order to negotiate with Newrome, he capitulated to using the 1962 Missal and rubrics. Furthermore, you are taking orders from Newrome when you use the 1962 Missal and rubrics, just like the SSPX does, so you're not really in the Resistance with the '62 Missal. You're not resisting at all. You're going along to get along, like the FSSP, Redepmptorists of Orkney Is., SSPX, Campos, Brazil, and others who have been or are in the process of being swallowed up by Newrome.
    .
    There are still a lot of TLM priests who continue to use the pre-1955 rules, adhering to the principle that when a crisis arises, the safest tack is to revert to the last securely known method, and there is no question about how securely known the pre-1955 calendar was. The first wave of attacks came on the Holy Week prayers, which had been in continuous use since Apostolic times. The Modernists severed ties with the oldest prayers in the Roman Church from the start, in order to get the ball rolling.
    .
    So if you're going to use the 1962 missal, then go ahead, but you're going to be facing these kinds of conflicts and challenges every year, on different days of the year for different Feast Days. You won't have as many Scripture readings (which the Modernists designed so they could then complain that there were not enough readings). And depending on which choices you make, and which choices other priests make, there will eventually be as much variety in how one ought to say Mass as the Protestants have in their so-called worship services.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #10 on: September 08, 2018, 02:16:36 AM »
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  • This is one of my favorite feasts, since it's also my wedding anniversary.
    .
    Happy anniversary, Mr. & Mrs. Ladislaus!
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Feast of the Holy Rosary or 20th Sun after Pentecost?
    « Reply #11 on: September 08, 2018, 12:27:59 PM »
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  • .
    Happy anniversary, Mr. & Mrs. Ladislaus!

    Thank you in advance, Neil.  Feast of the Holy Rosary is October 7th.  It'll be 18 years.


     

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