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Author Topic: Confession: All sin or just mortal  (Read 2160 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2018, 01:31:28 PM »
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    • Most Traditional Catholics don't know this but technically John XXIII in the 1962 Rite dropped the second Confiteor & absolution, the one just before Communion.  But the SSPX retained it.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 01:33:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on October 01, 2018, 11:00:18 AM
    .
    How could someone be standing in line to go to Confession without having the intention to receive the sacrament of Penance?
    .
    What expectation could anyone have "to receive the Sacrament of Confession (per the Council of Trent)" while facing imminent death?

    I don't understand what you're saying here.  

    Not expectation but "intention" to receive the Sacrament.

    Yes, someone standing in line undoubtedly has the intention to receive the Sacrament.  But if the line gets cut off, they can't just go to Communion based on having made a perfect act of contrition.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 05:55:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 01, 2018, 01:33:52 PM
    I don't understand what you're saying here.  

    Not expectation but "intention" to receive the Sacrament.

    Yes, someone standing in line undoubtedly has the intention to receive the Sacrament.  But if the line gets cut off, they can't just go to Communion based on having made a perfect act of contrition.
    This is true if they have a mortal sin; however not true if they have only veniel sins.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #18 on: October 01, 2018, 08:23:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cera on October 01, 2018, 05:55:03 PM
    This is true if they have a mortal sin; however not true if they have only veniel sins.

    Yes, we were discussing mortal sins.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #19 on: October 02, 2018, 12:13:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 01, 2018, 01:33:52 PM
    I don't understand what you're saying here.  

    Not expectation but "intention" to receive the Sacrament.

    Yes, someone standing in line undoubtedly has the intention to receive the Sacrament.  But if the line gets cut off, they can't just go to Communion based on having made a perfect act of contrition.
    .
    I was talking about someone in imminent danger of death. 
    If you're in a situation where you're obviously going to die very soon all the intention in the world to confess your sins to a priest won't help you to get a priest, that is, unless it's miraculously; you're much more likely to be disappointed. 
    In that context, it's a good practice to be familiar with the principle of perfect contrition, which gives one hope in dire straits.
    It's a consolation against falling to the temptation of ultimate despair.
    And the devil is quite effective with that temptation especially against the dying. 
    It's far more beneficial to contemplate the act of perfect contrition than it is to fuss around endlessly over technicalities.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #20 on: October 02, 2018, 12:28:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 01, 2018, 01:31:28 PM
    Most Traditional Catholics don't know this but technically John XXIII in the 1962 Rite dropped the second Confiteor & absolution, the one just before Communion.  But the SSPX retained it.
    .
    You can prattle on and on about what the modern popes have done to dismantle the Catholic Faith if you like, but it's all problematic.
    .
    Each little chop at the trunk of the tree adds up to the wholesale abandonment of the Church's Tradition.
    .
    They did away with most of the liturgical Octaves too, so is that a good idea?
    They did away with the Oath Against Modernism, was that another big plus in your book?
    They technically abrogated the abjuration of heresy required of Catholic converts, with your approval, no doubt.
    Novus Ordo priests no longer perform infant exorcism as part of the Baptism rite: okay with Ladislaus?
    They did away with many indulgences, reducing them to plenary and partial -- to what purpose?
    They abandoned the Lenonine Prayers after Low Mass, but most TLM priests still do them anyway: are they wrong?
    You can smugly announce what "Blessed" John XXIII, Paul VI and "St." JPII did away with, to what end?
    Maybe you'd be more at home with the Novus Ordo -- the bottom-line product of ALL the changes.
    .
    When they technically canonize Paul VI this month, are you going to be on board with that show as well?

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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #21 on: October 02, 2018, 10:47:20 AM »
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    • Neil, you've been very adversarial the past week.  Ladislaus simply posted a liturgical fact, which cannot even be debated, and you're jumping down his throat.  What's the problem?  He didn't condone the change, he just said it happened.  Calm down.
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    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #22 on: October 02, 2018, 01:10:41 PM »
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    • Venial sin can feed into mortal sin, a heavy drinker can become violent or lustful or both. If there is a connection to be made, it is relevant to confess them. It surely allow Fr confessor to give better, more modulated and relevant spiritual guidance and an appropriate penance.
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    Offline 800 Cruiser

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #23 on: October 02, 2018, 04:03:36 PM »
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    • As I’ve said before, I’m not very familiar with the differences between venial and mortal. 

    I do not take a very long time confessing what I’m aware of and make a point to always say that there must be something I am forgetting (childhood traumas have messed up my memory). And so far anyway, I am the last in line for confession (I have 5 children and am still trying to get my timing on track). 

    I am trying very hard to be right with my practicing of the faith, and frequently beg forgiveness from God if I am not doing something quite the way it is expected/taught: I am an infant in the practice of traditional Catholicism. 

    I agree that it is not good to take too long in confession. I also understand that if it is a venial sin I am not working/repentant truly on I should not bring it up. I do have several that I am working at, and would like to say, with much joy, that they have been greatly reduced since my conversion. But I still have work to do to eliminate and keep my guard up after eliminating those I am working on. After I eliminate those I have a few more waiting to be addressed. 

    I believe that I am committing various sins that I do not know/am not aware of being sins. So in confession it is my sincere hope and belief that my heart and intention is understood that I truly wish to confess everything. The last thing I want now is to take communion and commit an act of sacrilege. Definitely not my intent. 
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #24 on: October 02, 2018, 04:12:29 PM »
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    • Here are some great 'examinations of conscience' docuмents, which explain mortal vs venial, so you can get an idea of the differences.  Spend some time to study this and you'll get the gist pretty quickly.  There are also little booklets out there which have more details that the below links.

    http://www.catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/sacraments/adults.htm

    http://archive.fatima.org/essentials/requests/examconc.asp

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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #25 on: October 02, 2018, 07:00:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: 800 Cruiser on October 02, 2018, 04:03:36 PM
    I believe that I am committing various sins that I do not know/am not aware of being sins.

    If you are not aware, and are making a sincere effort to learn, then these are not sins ... but rather faults or imperfections.  Sin by its definition involves an awareness and an act of the will ... at least on some level.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #26 on: October 02, 2018, 07:08:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on October 02, 2018, 12:13:07 AM
    .
    I was talking about someone in imminent danger of death.
    If you're in a situation where you're obviously going to die very soon all the intention in the world to confess your sins to a priest won't help you to get a priest, that is, unless it's miraculously; you're much more likely to be disappointed.
    In that context, it's a good practice to be familiar with the principle of perfect contrition, which gives one hope in dire straits.
    It's a consolation against falling to the temptation of ultimate despair.
    And the devil is quite effective with that temptation especially against the dying.
    It's far more beneficial to contemplate the act of perfect contrition than it is to fuss around endlessly over technicalities.

    This requirement for the intention to confess is taught by Trent.  Perfect contrition on its own does not suffice.  Intention means that you would if you could.  This isn't that difficult.  You can have all kinds of emotions of sorrow welling up in your mind, combined with compassion about how the sins offended God and crucified Our Lord, but without the purpose of amendment, it's not enough.  Nor are both of these enough without the intention/desire to confess your sins ... even if that proves to be impossible in fact.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #27 on: October 02, 2018, 07:24:32 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 02, 2018, 10:47:20 AM
    Neil, you've been very adversarial the past week.  Ladislaus simply posted a liturgical fact, which cannot even be debated, and you're jumping down his throat.  What's the problem?  He didn't condone the change, he just said it happened.  Calm down.

    Right.  I actually do not like that particular change.  Someone had stated that the Novus Ordo dropped the second absolution, but John XXIII actually dropped it first.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Confession: All sin or just mortal
    « Reply #28 on: October 02, 2018, 07:27:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 02, 2018, 07:08:12 PM
    This requirement for the intention to confess is taught by Trent.  Perfect contrition on its own does not suffice.  Intention means that you would if you could.  This isn't that difficult.  You can have all kinds of emotions of sorrow welling up in your mind, combined with compassion about how the sins offended God and crucified Our Lord, but without the purpose of amendment, it's not enough.  Nor are both of these enough without the intention/desire to confess your sins ... even if that proves to be impossible in fact.

    Nor is it required to immediately track down a priest at 3AM if necessary and drag him out of bed.  It means that you intend to go to Confession as soon as reasonably possible.  If someone made a perfect act of Contrition on Monday and thought, "I will go to Confession next Sunday." ... that suffices, according to theologians I have read on this subject.  On the other hand, you could have all the sorrow in the world, and resolve never to sin again, but if you're thinking, "well, I might confess on Sunday or else I might put if off a few weeks" ... that falls short of what's required to be restored to a state of justification.
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