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Offline Anna1959

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Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
« on: August 14, 2011, 07:24:48 PM »
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  • In 2008 I was taking care of my elderly and terminally ill mother in my home. She had left the Church in the 1940s, to marry my father, who was not Catholic but an unbaptized Jew. She did not reject the Catholic Faith in her heart, in fact she often spoke very lovingly of the Faith, and it was one of the things that inspired me to find the True Faith and convert (which I did, via the traditional movement in existence at the time when I was a teen...the 1970s).

    On Palm Sunday, I awoke to a movie about St Joan of Arc which my husband had left on the TV and gone out. I woke up to the scene where she was being told she would not be able to receive the Last Rites because they were burning her as a heretic. The look of horror that came over her face reminded me of my mother, that there was a chance she might die without being reconciled to the Faith.

    I could not locate a traditional priest, and I knew her time was short. So, I contacted the local novus ordo parish and specifically asked for a very elderly priest, figuring he would have been ordained prior to 1968, when they changed the rite for ordination.

    They sent over a priest who looked to be in his late 70s, and when I asked him, he said he was ordained in 1959 (which I took as a sign, since that is when I was born!)

    I asked him, begged him, actually....if he would use the traditional rite for Extreme Unction, and to me surprise, he said he would, and he did! I was very emotionally upset at the time, but I do recall it sounded traditional.

    My mother died two days later, on St Patrick's Day. My mom had always told me that people who die during Holy Week go straight to Heaven....I don't know where she got that from, but isn't it strange that that is when she died?

    But did I do the right thing? I have wondered for the last 3 years.
    "If I am not in the state of grace, may the Lord put me in it. And if I am in the state of grace, may the Lord keep me in it".--St Jehanne D'Arc, during her trial.

    Offline LordPhan

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #1 on: August 14, 2011, 07:27:53 PM »
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  • Quote from: Anna1959
    In 2008 I was taking care of my elderly and terminally ill mother in my home. She had left the Church in the 1940s, to marry my father, who was not Catholic but an unbaptized Jew. She did not reject the Catholic Faith in her heart, in fact she often spoke very lovingly of the Faith, and it was one of the things that inspired me to find the True Faith and convert (which I did, via the traditional movement in existence at the time when I was a teen...the 1970s).

    On Palm Sunday, I awoke to a movie about St Joan of Arc which my husband had left on the TV and gone out. I woke up to the scene where she was being told she would not be able to receive the Last Rites because they were burning her as a heretic. The look of horror that came over her face reminded me of my mother, that there was a chance she might die without being reconciled to the Faith.

    I could not locate a traditional priest, and I knew her time was short. So, I contacted the local novus ordo parish and specifically asked for a very elderly priest, figuring he would have been ordained prior to 1968, when they changed the rite for ordination.

    They sent over a priest who looked to be in his late 70s, and when I asked him, he said he was ordained in 1959 (which I took as a sign, since that is when I was born!)

    I asked him, begged him, actually....if he would use the traditional rite for Extreme Unction, and to me surprise, he said he would, and he did! I was very emotionally upset at the time, but I do recall it sounded traditional.

    My mother died two days later, on St Patrick's Day. My mom had always told me that people who die during Holy Week go straight to Heaven....I don't know where she got that from, but isn't it strange that that is when she died?

    But did I do the right thing? I have wondered for the last 3 years.


    Yes you did the right thing. Firstly, anything is better then nothing. Secondly extreme circumstances.


    Offline Anna1959

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 07:37:06 PM »
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  • Quote from: LordPhan
    Quote from: Anna1959
    In 2008 I was taking care of my elderly and terminally ill mother in my home. She had left the Church in the 1940s, to marry my father, who was not Catholic but an unbaptized Jew. She did not reject the Catholic Faith in her heart, in fact she often spoke very lovingly of the Faith, and it was one of the things that inspired me to find the True Faith and convert (which I did, via the traditional movement in existence at the time when I was a teen...the 1970s).

    On Palm Sunday, I awoke to a movie about St Joan of Arc which my husband had left on the TV and gone out. I woke up to the scene where she was being told she would not be able to receive the Last Rites because they were burning her as a heretic. The look of horror that came over her face reminded me of my mother, that there was a chance she might die without being reconciled to the Faith.

    I could not locate a traditional priest, and I knew her time was short. So, I contacted the local novus ordo parish and specifically asked for a very elderly priest, figuring he would have been ordained prior to 1968, when they changed the rite for ordination.

    They sent over a priest who looked to be in his late 70s, and when I asked him, he said he was ordained in 1959 (which I took as a sign, since that is when I was born!)

    I asked him, begged him, actually....if he would use the traditional rite for Extreme Unction, and to me surprise, he said he would, and he did! I was very emotionally upset at the time, but I do recall it sounded traditional.

    My mother died two days later, on St Patrick's Day. My mom had always told me that people who die during Holy Week go straight to Heaven....I don't know where she got that from, but isn't it strange that that is when she died?

    But did I do the right thing? I have wondered for the last 3 years.


    Yes you did the right thing. Firstly, anything is better then nothing. Secondly extreme circumstances.


    Thank you so much....its been eating away at me for 3 years now. Thank you. :)
    "If I am not in the state of grace, may the Lord put me in it. And if I am in the state of grace, may the Lord keep me in it".--St Jehanne D'Arc, during her trial.

    Offline Iuvenalis

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 08:22:40 PM »
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  • It's not like attending Mass, where one has time to plan ahead, find a suitably reverent (and of course valid!) Mass and drive to it or make transportation plans, or come up with a lifestyle that permits you to be close to the sacraments.

    Death is usually unplanned, or one make be forced to take specialized medical care in a town far from a trad community or chapel.

    Basically, there must be a whole other level of 'culpability' (for lack of a better word) in what rites one finds than in what Mass/parish one attends (or not). You have years/decades of Mass attendance to come to the conclusion that you should, say, seek another Mass if need be, but in the last hours, you most likely have to take what you get, or nothing.

    It sounds very much like God provided, and that should assuage some of your fears.

    A better focus would be a good Confession in her last hours, contrition, and leaving this life in a state of Grace.

    This is a reminder to us all to keep our lives in order, according to God's commandments, and to confess soon and contritely when we fail, as we may not have such an opportunity. Trad priests are a rare breed, and the older priests in the Novus Ordo Chuch are dead or dying, few among them even aren't overtly hostile to the old rites anyway.

    You might console yourself further, if you haven't already, by making sure a proper Requiem Mass is said for her repose (a TLM) and to pray rosaries for her soul and all the souls in Purgatory -- they need it, and some day so will we, if we even make it to Purgatory...

    Offline Anna1959

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #4 on: August 14, 2011, 08:35:18 PM »
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  • Thank you, and yes, you're right. Memento mori.

    I did have a TLM said for her after her death; Fr Morrison of the STRC.
    "If I am not in the state of grace, may the Lord put me in it. And if I am in the state of grace, may the Lord keep me in it".--St Jehanne D'Arc, during her trial.


    Offline Sigismund

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #5 on: August 14, 2011, 09:51:27 PM »
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  • I don't thin it would have been wrong to ask any Ctholic priest for the sacraments, but there is no question that what you did was fine.

    If I may ask, what is the STRC?

    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir

    Offline Anna1959

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #6 on: August 15, 2011, 03:50:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Sigismund
    I don't thin it would have been wrong to ask any Ctholic priest for the sacraments, but there is no question that what you did was fine.

    If I may ask, what is the STRC?



    Society of Traditional Roman Catholics. Until recently, Fr Vaillancourt (I think it is) put out a Traditional Catholic newsletter from Washington state. I forget their url, but you can probably Google it.

    Edit: Here it is, I just found it: http://www.strc.org/index.html
    "If I am not in the state of grace, may the Lord put me in it. And if I am in the state of grace, may the Lord keep me in it".--St Jehanne D'Arc, during her trial.

    Offline Sigismund

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #7 on: August 15, 2011, 04:58:06 PM »
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  • Thanks very much!
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Offline TKGS

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #8 on: August 16, 2011, 06:29:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: LordPhan
    Yes you did the right thing. Firstly, anything is better then nothing. Secondly extreme circumstances.


    I would like to disagree here.  "Something" is not better than "nothing".  However, in this case, you did indeed get something.  Your mother received a true sacrament of the Catholic Church from a true priest, whatever else he may be.  This is just another example of how Catholicism can still be found in Conciliar structures.  It is getting more and more difficult to do so, but it is still there in pockets and in dusty corners.  

    You, indeed, did the right thing.

    Offline Anna1959

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #9 on: August 16, 2011, 09:40:34 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: LordPhan
    Yes you did the right thing. Firstly, anything is better then nothing. Secondly extreme circumstances.


    I would like to disagree here.  "Something" is not better than "nothing".  However, in this case, you did indeed get something.  Your mother received a true sacrament of the Catholic Church from a true priest, whatever else he may be.  This is just another example of how Catholicism can still be found in Conciliar structures.  It is getting more and more difficult to do so, but it is still there in pockets and in dusty corners.  

    You, indeed, did the right thing.


    I think we are fortunate that there are still validly ordained Catholic priests, even within the conciliar institution. That won't be the case for long, but once the last priest passes away who was ordained before the changes in the ordination rite, we can forget going to them for anything. I'm just glad that my mom passed away during the time when hope could still be found (albeit barely) in that institution.
    "If I am not in the state of grace, may the Lord put me in it. And if I am in the state of grace, may the Lord keep me in it".--St Jehanne D'Arc, during her trial.

    Offline LordPhan

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #10 on: August 16, 2011, 09:55:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    Quote from: LordPhan
    Yes you did the right thing. Firstly, anything is better then nothing. Secondly extreme circumstances.


    I would like to disagree here.  "Something" is not better than "nothing".  However, in this case, you did indeed get something.  Your mother received a true sacrament of the Catholic Church from a true priest, whatever else he may be.  This is just another example of how Catholicism can still be found in Conciliar structures.  It is getting more and more difficult to do so, but it is still there in pockets and in dusty corners.  

    You, indeed, did the right thing.


    I have been told and read that  a cleric who has a doubtful question on their validity of ordaination should not be sought after the sacrements UNLESS one is in danger of death and noone else to go to.


    Offline romanitaspress

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    Extreme Unction: Did I do the right thing?
    « Reply #11 on: August 23, 2011, 11:52:30 AM »
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  • FYI, the changes to the new rite of priestly ordination did not invalidate it (per se). See this article on sspx.org:  http://sspx.org/miscellaneous/conditional_ordination.pdf.

    The same is also true regarding the new rite of episcopal consecration:  http://sspx.org/miscellaneous/sedevacantism/validity_of_episcopal_consecrations.pdf.

    What it comes down to is, the minimum requirements necessary for valid ordinations are still present.

     

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