Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers => Topic started by: Miseremini on September 18, 2022, 05:30:10 PM
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For those who call themselves traditional Catholics, this coming week is an Ember Week.
Fast and abstinence on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday.
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Not Wednesday this time (i.e., the Feast of St. Matthew the Apostle takes precedence, so only Friday and Saturday are subject to the traditional penances).
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Not Wednesday this time (i.e., the Feast of St. Matthew the Apostle takes precedence, so only Friday and Saturday are subject to the traditional penances).
It’s still an Ember Day, and still a day of Fast and Partial Abstinence.
The Feast of St. Matthew is not a Holy Day of obligation so it does not displace the Fast and Partial Abstinence of the Ember Day.
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Already on my calendar
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Not Wednesday this time (i.e., the Feast of St. Matthew the Apostle takes precedence, so only Friday and Saturday are subject to the traditional penances).
I’ve never heard of this before, can you give a reference?
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I’ve never heard of this before, can you give a reference?
This is all I could find in English (but you will notice your 1962 liturgical calendar has no fish or partial fish symbol for Wednesday, as it does for Friday and Saturday, because this year it falls on the Feast of St. Matthew):
"A second indication of this new reckoning is provided in the Proprium Sanctorum section of the 1962 Missale Romanum, wherein a rubrical note is printed after the collects for the Feast of St. Matthew, Apostle and Evangelist (September 21):
Et, in Quatuor Temporibus, fit commemoratio feriæ.
Here, the term feriæ is referring to the Ember Day which is a II class ferial. This note indicates that the September Ember Days might be observed within that time frame—though they could also be observed between September 18 and 27 as the earliest and latest dates."
https://www.romanitaspress.com/reckoning-sept-ember-days
En France, here is the FSSPX online Ordo (which reduced Ember Wednesday to a commemoration, and the liturgical color red for St. Matthew, whereas Friday and Saturday are Ember Days, purple, and fast/abstinence):
https://laportelatine.org/ordo
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This is all I could find in English (but you will notice your 1962 liturgical calendar has no fish or partial fish symbol for Wednesday, as it does for Friday and Saturday, because because this year it falls on the Feast of St. Matthew):
"A second indication of this new reckoning is provided in the Proprium Sanctorum section of the 1962 Missale Romanum, wherein a rubrical note is printed after the collects for the Feast of St. Matthew, Apostle and Evangelist (September 21):
Et, in Quatuor Temporibus, fit commemoratio feriæ.
Here, the term feriæ is referring to the Ember Day which is a II class ferial. This note indicates that the September Ember Days might be observed within that time frame—though they could also be observed between September 18 and 27 as the earliest and latest dates."
https://www.romanitaspress.com/reckoning-sept-ember-days
I don’t go by the ‘62 calendar, but thanks for the explanation.
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I don’t go by the ‘62 calendar, but thanks for the explanation.
I agree that the old calendar (pre-1960) was better.
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This is all I could find in English (but you will notice your 1962 liturgical calendar has no fish or partial fish symbol for Wednesday, as it does for Friday and Saturday, because this year it falls on the Feast of St. Matthew):
"A second indication of this new reckoning is provided in the Proprium Sanctorum section of the 1962 Missale Romanum, wherein a rubrical note is printed after the collects for the Feast of St. Matthew, Apostle and Evangelist (September 21):
Et, in Quatuor Temporibus, fit commemoratio feriæ.
Here, the term feriæ is referring to the Ember Day which is a II class ferial. This note indicates that the September Ember Days might be observed within that time frame—though they could also be observed between September 18 and 27 as the earliest and latest dates."
https://www.romanitaspress.com/reckoning-sept-ember-days
En France, here is the FSSPX online Ordo (which reduced Ember Wednesday to a commemoration, and the liturgical color red for St. Matthew, whereas Friday and Saturday are Ember Days, purple, and fast/abstinence):
https://laportelatine.org/ordo
The SSPX (at least in the US.) actually claim that none of the Ember Days are binding. 😅
"Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday of this week are EMBER DAYS, traditionally days of fast and abstinence, but they no longer bind under pain of sin."
https://smac.edu/en/news-events/calendar/ember-wednesday-70878
The only time I have heard of a fast or abstinence day being over-ruled by a solemnity feast is in the Novus ordo. Traditionally it had to be a Holy Day of Obligation to trump a fast and abstinence day or even partial abstinence.
That being said... Some countries might claim Saint Matthew as a Holy Day of Obligation as some claim Saint Peter and Paul as a Holy Day of Obligation. If you live in such a country where the feast of Saint Matthew is a Holy Day, then yes no fasting or abstinence.
I have never heard or seen any other exception to this. But, it would be interesting to hear if someone knows something contrary to this. 😇
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The SSPX actually claim that none of the Ember Days are binding. 😅
"Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday of this week are EMBER DAYS, traditionally days of fast and abstinence, but they no longer bind under pain of sin."
https://smac.edu/en/news-events/calendar/ember-wednesday-70878
Yeah, that's because they recognize the current "Popes" as legitimate and therefore degrade traditional Catholicism to a cafeteria-Catholic traditionalist LARP based on the changes these Novus Ordo popes have made.
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I agree that the old calendar (pre-1960) was better.
Yes, it is better, but I don’t recognize it because it’s clear to me that after the death of Pope Pius XII, his “successors” are, at the very least, doubtful.
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Yeah, that's because they recognize the current "Popes" as legitimate and therefore degrade traditional Catholicism to a cafeteria-Catholic traditionalist LARP based on the changes these Novus Ordo popes have made.
I just realized I might not have been clear with my intentions for posting what I did. I did not mean to say I was supporting the SSPX in this... Just clarifying that they don't really consider the Ember Days as binding at all much less just saying people are free from the binding of Ember Wednesday because of the Feast of Saint Matthew.
I don't agree with them myself and do prefer the Old Calendar. :incense:
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This is all I could find in English (but you will notice your 1962 liturgical calendar has no fish or partial fish symbol for Wednesday, as it does for Friday and Saturday, because this year it falls on the Feast of St. Matthew.)
SSPX calendar has a fish on Wednesday.
Resistance priest also agrees it is not binding under pain of sin (except Friday).
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I just realized I might not have been clear with my intentions for posting what I did. I did not mean to say I was supporting the SSPX in this... Just clarifying that they don't really consider the Ember Days as binding at all much less just saying people are free from the binding of Ember Wednesday because of the Feast of Saint Matthew.
I don't agree with them myself and do prefer the Old Calendar. :incense:
I didn't think you were
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I didn't think you were
Okay! I guess I just second guessed the way I wrote it. 😅
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SSPX calendar has a fish on Wednesday.
Resistance priest also agrees it is not binding under pain of sin (except Friday).
Out of curiosity... Does the resistance follow the 1962 missal and calendar?
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Our parish bulletin did not mention Wednesday as an Ember Day. I wondered if there is something about the Feast of St. Matthew that bumps the fasting/partial abstinence.
Anybody know?
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http://www.traditio.com/calendar/cal2209.pdf
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Did "Father Moderator" Morrison ever get a valid ordination?
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I don’t know. His website has valuable Catholic education. He does have a traditional Catholic calendar. Who am I to judge him?
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http://www.traditio.com/calendar/cal2209.pdf
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I don’t go by the ‘62 calendar, but thanks for the explanation.
Wednesday would not be an Ember Day on the pre-1955 calendar either:
According to the ranking of feasts, the pre-1955 calendar designates the Feast of St. Matthew as a "double of the second class."
The rule regarding doubles of the second class was, "They are never omitted, but are transferred to the first available day if impeded by a Double of the First Class, or by a privileged Sunday or Feria (ie. Advent Sunday, Sundays in Lent, Ash Wednesday, or days in Holy Week)."
https://breviary.net/rankings.htm
However, since according to the same ranking system an Ember Day was considered only a non-privileged ferial, it is superceded in the Ordo by the superior feast.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Roman_Calendar_of_1954
It is for this reason that Mark79's sedevacantist chapel rightly omits to consider Wednesday an Ember Day this year, while the Traditio.com calendar is in error for doing so.
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Wednesday would not be an Ember Day on the pre-1955 calendar either:
According to the ranking of feasts, the pre-1955 calendar designates the Feast of St. Matthew as a "double of the second class."
The rule regarding doubles of the second class was, "They are never omitted, but are transferred to the first available day if impeded by a Double of the First Class, or by a privileged Sunday or Feria (ie. Advent Sunday, Sundays in Lent, Ash Wednesday, or days in Holy Week)."
https://breviary.net/rankings.htm
However, since according to the same ranking system an Ember Day was considered only a non-privileged ferial, it is superceded in the Ordo by the superior feast.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Roman_Calendar_of_1954
It is for this reason that Mark79's sedevacantist chapel rightly omits to consider Wednesday an Ember Day this year, while the Traditio.com calendar is in error for doing so.
This is not exactly correct.
The Ember Day is commemorated on Wednesday. It is still an Ember Day, but the Mass and Office are of the Feast of St. Matthew, with commemorations of the Ember Day (meaning 2nd orations and Last Gospel are of the Ember Day).
So it is not right to “omit” Wednesday as an Ember Day. It is commemorated.
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This is not exactly correct.
The Ember Day is commemorated on Wednesday. It is still an Ember Day, but the Mass and Office are of the Feast of St. Matthew, with commemorations of the Ember Day (meaning 2nd orations and Last Gospel are of the Ember Day).
So it is not right to “omit” Wednesday as an Ember Day. It is commemorated.
...but without fast/abstinence.
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Couldn't hurt to still fast and abstain. I don't think St Matthew would mind.
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...but without fast/abstinence.
I am wrong.
I just discovered an excellent online 1954 Ordo/website, and it says this:
St. Matthew, Apostle & Evangelist
Wednesday, September 21, 2022
Color: Red
Penance: Fast & Partial Abstinence
Flowers: No flowers at the Ember Day Mass
Organ: No organ at the Ember Day Mass
Commemorations: Ember Wednesday in September
Penitential kneeling: Yes, at the Ember Day Mass
Mass
After Terce, Mass of the feast, Commemoration and Proper Last Gospel of the Ember Day (unless the Ember Day Mass will also be celebrated after None). Folded Chasubles: Yes, at the Ember Day Mass
Gloria. Credo.
Preface: Apostles
Office
Doxology: Per Annum
Hymn Tone: Solemn
Matins: Lesson IX of the Ember Day
Lauds: Commemoration of the Ember Day
Vespers: Second Vespers of the feast, Commemorations of the following day
https://ordo.restorethe54.com/ordo/2022/9/21/
What a fantastic resource!
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This is not exactly correct.
The Ember Day is commemorated on Wednesday. It is still an Ember Day, but the Mass and Office are of the Feast of St. Matthew, with commemorations of the Ember Day (meaning 2nd orations and Last Gospel are of the Ember Day).
So it is not right to “omit” Wednesday as an Ember Day. It is commemorated.
Thanks for the correction!
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Thanks for the correction!
You're welcome. I'm a priest that exclusively celebrates the pre-55 Liturgy.
God bless!
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You're welcome. I'm a priest that exclusively celebrates the pre-55 Liturgy.
God bless!
After you posted this, I went back and read your posts, and was very edified by them. I would like to see you post more here, but as it can be a very polemical place, I understand why you do not.
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For those who call themselves traditional Catholics, this coming week is an Ember Week.
Fast and abstinence on Wednesday, Friday and Saturday.
Technicalities aside I will just offer it up all three days. Thanks for the reminder.
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Only partial abstinence Wednesday and Saturday [one meat meal].