Author Topic: Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?  (Read 2264 times)

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Offline Disputaciones

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Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
« on: October 08, 2015, 12:44:08 AM »
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  • In Spanish the Hail Mary starts: "Dios te salve María...".

    The word God is in the beginning even though in Latin it isn't, or in English.

    A literal translation in English would be: "God hail you Mary...".

    It seems it has been like that even before V2, but I find it very strange.

    Offline JezusDeKoning

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #1 on: October 08, 2015, 07:09:09 AM »
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  • That's how it is (sort of) in French too: "je vous salue, Marie pleine de grace".

    My guess is that it was the most ergonomic or easiest way to translate it from Latin. Spanish can be a weird language to translate to.
    Tío Samuel, ven pa 'aca


    Offline Centroamerica

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #2 on: October 08, 2015, 07:12:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    In Spanish the Hail Mary starts: "Dios te salve María...".

    The word God is in the beginning even though in Latin it isn't, or in English.

    A literal translation in English would be: "God hail you Mary...".

    It seems it has been like that even before V2, but I find it very strange.



    You will always find these peculiarities between languages.  The French version says "pray for us poor sinners" (pauvres pecheurs).


    If you look at the Our Father in Spanish it says "forgive us our offenses", in English "forgive us our trespasses", and in Portuguese "forgive us our debts"... The Latin literal translation is "debts" and because of this some Brazilian traditionalists say that any version in Portuguese that doesn't say "divida" (debt) is modernist!  I disagree.


    Language is complex and people who are always looking for literal translations that leave everything perfectly clear between languages rarely never are able to learn to speak a language fluently before breaking this habit.  

    "Ave Maria" is Latin and the Spanish at the time decided that the equivalent expression was "Dios te salve Maria".  The Portuguese retained "Ave Maria" while the French says "Je vous salue Marie".
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Jaynek

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #3 on: October 08, 2015, 08:43:48 AM »
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  • I don't know the answer, but I found this website with the "Hail Mary" in various languages:
    http://www.hnom.org/ave.htm

    Offline confederate catholic

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 11:10:59 AM »
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  • in Aramaic/Syriac there are variations Chaldeans say:
      Shlom lekh bthoolto Mariam - hail o Virgin Mary
    others
      šlom-lék Mar-yam - Hail Mary
    again Chaldeans:
      Mariam yoldath aloho
    Mary (Birth giver of) Bearer of God
    others
      Mar-yam é-méh da-lo-ho
    Mary Mother of God

    caught this on an orthodox website:
    Quote
    Topic: Oh.. Morth Mariam Yoldath Aloho (Mother Of God) Pray For Us  (Read 1095 times)
    Shlom lekh bthoolto Mariam,
    Maliath taibootho,
    moran a'amekh,
    mbarakhto at bneshey,
    wambarakhoo feero dabkharsekh yeshue,
    O qadeeshto Mariam,
    yoldath aloho,
    saloy hlofain hatoyeh,
    hosho wabsho'ath mawtan.
    Amin


    and some people complain about a 15 min rosary  :laugh2:

    (thats a Chaldean Hail Mary, btw)
    قامت مريم، ترتيل وفاء جحا و سلام جحا


    Offline Matto

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    • Love God and Play, Do Good Work and Pray
      • Julian Moore
    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #5 on: October 08, 2015, 01:04:35 PM »
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  • This talk about translations reminds me of the English translation of the Glory Be which ends "World without end." Not only does it not make sense to me but it is also wrong because the world will end when Christ returns.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #6 on: October 08, 2015, 09:31:32 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    This talk about translations reminds me of the English translation of the Glory Be which ends "World without end." Not only does it not make sense to me but it is also wrong because the world will end when Christ returns.


    The word "world" at the end of the Glory Be is in reference to eternity, not "this world":

    "...as it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end.  Amen."

    The Latin, "et in saecula saeculorum" is used throughout the Mass to refer to eternal life.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Matto

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      • Julian Moore
    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #7 on: October 08, 2015, 09:40:50 PM »
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  • et in saecula saeculorum, according to my internet search, literally means "for ages of ages", sometimes translated as "for ever and ever", not "world without end." I always thought it weas strange though I still pray it, but what do I know.
    I Love Watching Butterflies . . ..


    Offline Centroamerica

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #8 on: October 08, 2015, 09:52:28 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    et in saecula saeculorum, according to my internet search, literally means "for ages of ages", sometimes translated as "for ever and ever", not "world without end." I always thought it weas strange though I still pray it, but what do I know.


    "Sæcula" in Latin is "séculos" in Portuguese and "siglos" in Spanish and can refer to a hundred years time span (centuries). Século XVI - the 16th century.  "Sæculōrum" is the plural genitive "of centuries"..."and in the centuries of the centuries [to come]".
    We conclude logically that religion can give an efficacious and truly realistic answer to the great modern problems only if it is a religion that is profoundly lived, not simply a superficial and cheap religion made up of some vocal prayers and some ceremonies...

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #9 on: October 08, 2015, 09:57:27 PM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    In Spanish the Hail Mary starts: "Dios te salve María...".

    The word God is in the beginning even though in Latin it isn't, or in English.

    A literal translation in English would be: "God hail you Mary...".

    It seems it has been like that even before V2, but I find it very strange.


    In Spanish, a common parting sentence is "Adios."

    That's a shortened form of "Vaya con Dios," or "Go with God."

    But if you would take it literally, you might think it is "A Dios," or "To God."

    I wouldn't be surprised if Dios te salve Maria has some similar history of development.


    To be fair, if you take any of thousands of idioms in American English, they don't make any sense whatsoever in other languages, such as:

    Well, I'd be a monkey's uncle!
    Bust my buttons!
    Heavens t'murgatroid!
    Passing the buck
    I'm not just whistlin' Dixie.
    Davie Jones' Locker
    Tripping the light fantastic
    That's just water under the bridge.

    There are so many of them, you can literally put together an entire speech composed of an ongoing string of them, but it would be a speech wherein members of your audience who are ESL students wouldn't have a clue what you're saying.

    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline poche

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #10 on: October 11, 2015, 05:07:21 AM »
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  • Quote from: Disputaciones
    In Spanish the Hail Mary starts: "Dios te salve María...".

    The word God is in the beginning even though in Latin it isn't, or in English.

    A literal translation in English would be: "God hail you Mary...".

    It seems it has been like that even before V2, but I find it very strange.

    A alternative translation could be "Ave Maria." no?


    Offline poche

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #11 on: October 11, 2015, 05:09:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    Quote from: Disputaciones
    In Spanish the Hail Mary starts: "Dios te salve María...".

    The word God is in the beginning even though in Latin it isn't, or in English.

    A literal translation in English would be: "God hail you Mary...".

    It seems it has been like that even before V2, but I find it very strange.

    A alternative translation could be "Ave Maria." no?

    I had an old Italian language missal that said, "Dio ti salvi Maria." but when I lived in Italy everybody said, "Ave Maria.."  

    Offline poche

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #12 on: October 11, 2015, 05:17:11 AM »
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  • Quote from: confederate catholic
    in Aramaic/Syriac there are variations Chaldeans say:
      Shlom lekh bthoolto Mariam - hail o Virgin Mary
    others
      šlom-lék Mar-yam - Hail Mary
    again Chaldeans:
      Mariam yoldath aloho
    Mary (Birth giver of) Bearer of God
    others
      Mar-yam é-méh da-lo-ho
    Mary Mother of God

    caught this on an orthodox website:
    Quote
    Topic: Oh.. Morth Mariam Yoldath Aloho (Mother Of God) Pray For Us  (Read 1095 times)
    Shlom lekh bthoolto Mariam,
    Maliath taibootho,
    moran a'amekh,
    mbarakhto at bneshey,
    wambarakhoo feero dabkharsekh yeshue,
    O qadeeshto Mariam,
    yoldath aloho,
    saloy hlofain hatoyeh,
    hosho wabsho'ath mawtan.
    Amin


    and some people complain about a 15 min rosary  :laugh2:

    (thats a Chaldean Hail Mary, btw)


    I think this is why St Jerome translated the angels greeting as,"Ave Maria." instead of gaudete or lastate that is favored by some non semitic eastern writers.

    Offline poche

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #13 on: October 11, 2015, 05:21:45 AM »
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  • again Chaldeans:
      Mariam yoldath aloho
    Mary (Birth giver of) Bearer of God
    others
      Mar-yam é-méh da-lo-ho
    Mary Mother of God

    This appears to correspond to the Slavonic "Bohoroditse."

    Offline Mercyandjustice

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    Does anyone know why the Hail Mary is like this in Spanish?
    « Reply #14 on: October 11, 2015, 05:11:30 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    et in saecula saeculorum, according to my internet search, literally means "for ages of ages", sometimes translated as "for ever and ever", not "world without end." I always thought it weas strange though I still pray it, but what do I know.


    That's wht I pray it like : "....as it was in the beginning is now and always, forever and ever."
    That's how it ends in the Spanish version of the prayer
    Christians who preach their doctrine with bitterness and sarcasm don't preach out of love for God or souls, but only to assert dominance over others; out of pride.

     

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