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Author Topic: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?  (Read 611 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
« on: June 16, 2020, 11:19:46 PM »
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  • Hello everyone, I recently learned that Pope St. Nicholas the Great, who was a deacon before becoming pope, was allegedly  never ordained to the priesthood before being consecrated as a bishop. I have also heard that St. Augustine consecrated a lector to the episcopate. So this begs the question, were these consecrations valid? Are all the people in the whose ordination can be traced back to these people validly ordained?


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #1 on: June 16, 2020, 11:22:37 PM »
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  • The office of bishop is an office of spiritual authority, and can be occupied by someone who has not received episcopal orders.  As you note, there are occasionally even popes who were elected prior to the reception of episcopal orders (one in fact-- a Pius, can't remember which, but he was a Piccolomini-- died before ever receiving holy orders, and was never more than a deacon).
    .
    Of course, without episcopal orders, there are certain functions a man cannot perform-- confirmation and holy orders, for instance.  But the authority of an episcopal office can be held and exercised without episcopal orders.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #2 on: June 16, 2020, 11:23:51 PM »
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  • Sorry, I misunderstood your question. I'm not sure about receiving episcopal orders without first receiving the priesthood.  That's a good question.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #3 on: June 17, 2020, 05:55:24 AM »
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  • It’s debated by theologians, but the majority hold that priesthood is required first.  Be careful about interpreting historical statements. Just because someone consecrated a deacon or lector does not mean that he did not ordain him first as part of a process.

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #4 on: June 17, 2020, 08:08:45 AM »
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  • The office of bishop is an office of spiritual authority, and can be occupied by someone who has not received episcopal orders.  As you note, there are occasionally even popes who were elected prior to the reception of episcopal orders (one in fact-- a Pius, can't remember which, but he was a Piccolomini-- died before ever receiving holy orders, and was never more than a deacon).
    .
    Of course, without episcopal orders, there are certain functions a man cannot perform-- confirmation and holy orders, for instance.  But the authority of an episcopal office can be held and exercised without episcopal orders.
    I hate to be one of those "sources, please" jerks (or whatever other noun or anatomical reference you might use to describe them), but where are you getting this information?  I have always understood that a man has to be consecrated a bishop, and possess the fullness of Holy Orders, to be a bishop.  He could be "bishop-elect", but not "bishop" per se.

    Following this reasoning, a man --- even a layman --- could occupy the office of "Bishop of X" for the entire term of his "episcopate", yet never "be" a bishop, never be able to confirm or ordain, and for that matter, never be able to confer any other sacraments.  And I know that this may be poking the hornet's nest, but following this reasoning, could not even a woman be elected "Bishop of X", and hold the office?

    I mean this in all seriousness.  Thoughts?


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #5 on: June 17, 2020, 03:05:16 PM »
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  • I hate to be one of those "sources, please" jerks (or whatever other noun or anatomical reference you might use to describe them), but where are you getting this information?  I have always understood that a man has to be consecrated a bishop, and possess the fullness of Holy Orders, to be a bishop.  He could be "bishop-elect", but not "bishop" per se.

    Following this reasoning, a man --- even a layman --- could occupy the office of "Bishop of X" for the entire term of his "episcopate", yet never "be" a bishop, never be able to confirm or ordain, and for that matter, never be able to confer any other sacraments.  And I know that this may be poking the hornet's nest, but following this reasoning, could not even a woman be elected "Bishop of X", and hold the office?

    I mean this in all seriousness.  Thoughts?
    .
    It is a perfectly fair request.  The Church's canon law renders the matter quite clear, I think:
    .
    Canon 331 §1: The requisites of a candidate for the episcopate are: (1) he must be born of legitimate wedlock. Those legitimized by subsequent marriage are also excluded; (2) he must be at least thirty years of age; (3) he must have been ordained priest for at least five years; (4) he must possess good character, piety, zeal for souls, prudence, and other qualifications to govern the diocese in question; (5) he should have obtained the degree of doctor or licentiate in theology or Canon Law from a school approved by the Holy See, or must at least be well versed in these sciences" (Woywod, trans. Smith, p. 134-35, §242).
    .
    Canon 333: Unless prevented by legitimate impediment, the person promoted to the episcopate, even though he be a cardinal, must within three months from the receipt of the Apostolic Letters [i.e., the papal mandate which appointed him to a diocesan office] receive the consecration and go this diocese within at least four months (Woywod trans. Smith, vol. 1, p. 135, §244).
    .
    Canon 2398: If, on his promotion to the episcopal dignity, anyone neglects... to receive the consecration for another three months, he is automatically deprived of the episcopate (Woywod trans. Smith, vol 2, p. 577, §2254).
    .
    So: the legal requirements the Holy See insists on for candidate eligibility do not include episcopal consecration; in fact, there is a law that anticipates that a man appointed to an office will not be consecrated (given the prescription that he be consecrated within four months); and if he is not consecrated in the prescribed time without a good reason, he is deprived of the episcopate, which obviously could not happen unless he actually had it upon his promotion.
    .
    N.B.: these are obviously disciplinary laws which can change (and in fact have changed; the author of the book from which I am transcribing says the previous law did not insist upon the necessity of priestly orders for appointments, while the current one does).  However, the question it hand is a very simple one: can the Church appoint a man to the episcopacy who does not have episcopal orders? The answer to that question is yes. 
    .
    I do not think that women can be appointed to offices even theoretically, the reason being that in order to hold any office, one must be a cleric (which, in the measure of canon law, means receiving at least tonsure if not greater).  Women cannot be any grade of cleric, not even tonsured, ergo women cannot hold any office.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Bellato

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #6 on: June 17, 2020, 07:00:46 PM »
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  • .
    It is a perfectly fair request.  The Church's canon law renders the matter quite clear, I think:
    .
    Canon 331 §1: The requisites of a candidate for the episcopate are: (1) he must be born of legitimate wedlock. Those legitimized by subsequent marriage are also excluded; (2) he must be at least thirty years of age; (3) he must have been ordained priest for at least five years; (4) he must possess good character, piety, zeal for souls, prudence, and other qualifications to govern the diocese in question; (5) he should have obtained the degree of doctor or licentiate in theology or Canon Law from a school approved by the Holy See, or must at least be well versed in these sciences" (Woywod, trans. Smith, p. 134-35, §242).
    .
    Canon 333: Unless prevented by legitimate impediment, the person promoted to the episcopate, even though he be a cardinal, must within three months from the receipt of the Apostolic Letters [i.e., the papal mandate which appointed him to a diocesan office] receive the consecration and go this diocese within at least four months (Woywod trans. Smith, vol. 1, p. 135, §244).
    .
    Canon 2398: If, on his promotion to the episcopal dignity, anyone neglects... to receive the consecration for another three months, he is automatically deprived of the episcopate (Woywod trans. Smith, vol 2, p. 577, §2254).
    .
    So: the legal requirements the Holy See insists on for candidate eligibility do not include episcopal consecration; in fact, there is a law that anticipates that a man appointed to an office will not be consecrated (given the prescription that he be consecrated within four months); and if he is not consecrated in the prescribed time without a good reason, he is deprived of the episcopate, which obviously could not happen unless he actually had it upon his promotion.
    .
    N.B.: these are obviously disciplinary laws which can change (and in fact have changed; the author of the book from which I am transcribing says the previous law did not insist upon the necessity of priestly orders for appointments, while the current one does).  However, the question it hand is a very simple one: can the Church appoint a man to the episcopacy who does not have episcopal orders? The answer to that question is yes.  
    .
    I do not think that women can be appointed to offices even theoretically, the reason being that in order to hold any office, one must be a cleric (which, in the measure of canon law, means receiving at least tonsure if not greater).  Women cannot be any grade of cleric, not even tonsured, ergo women cannot hold any office.
    Those sources do not settle whether a bishop who is not yet ordained must first be ordained as priest, then consecrated as bishop, or can be be directly consecrated as bishop, bypassing ordination.  It's an interesting question but I don't think the Church has ever officially settled it.  

    Offline SimpleMan

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #7 on: June 17, 2020, 07:56:16 PM »
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  • Those sources do not settle whether a bishop who is not yet ordained must first be ordained as priest, then consecrated as bishop, or can be be directly consecrated as bishop, bypassing ordination.  It's an interesting question but I don't think the Church has ever officially settled it.  
    I thought that when a layman was chosen to be a bishop, he first had to be ordained a priest, then consecrated a bishop.  It would be theoretically possible to rise from the lay state to the episcopate in a single day, but it's been my understanding that he had to be a simple priest first, however short that interval might be.  Not sure if he has to be ordained a deacon before being ordained a priest.

    I do know of one case, Bishop Thomas Sebastian, who IIRC became a priest and then a bishop in the same day.  Not sure how canonical this was, just stating the fact.


    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #8 on: June 17, 2020, 09:03:18 PM »
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  • I thought that when a layman was chosen to be a bishop, he first had to be ordained a priest, then consecrated a bishop.  It would be theoretically possible to rise from the lay state to the episcopate in a single day, but it's been my understanding that he had to be a simple priest first, however short that interval might be.  Not sure if he has to be ordained a deacon before being ordained a priest.

    I do know of one case, Bishop Thomas Sebastian, who IIRC became a priest and then a bishop in the same day.  Not sure how canonical this was, just stating the fact.
    IIRC St. Ambrose was baptized, confirmed, ordained, and consecrated as Archbishop of Milan in the same day

    Offline moneil

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #9 on: June 17, 2020, 10:20:25 PM »
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  • Quote
    DECEMBER 7  Memorial
    St. Ambrose, Bishop and Doctor of the Church

    St. Ambrose was born of an aristocratic Roman family in Trier, Germany, in about 339. His father was praetorian prefect of Gaul (modern France), and after the father’s death, the family moved to Rome, where Ambrose studied (361–65) law. He entered (about 365) the civil service as a lawyer, and later (about 370) was named governor of Aemilia-Liguria in nothern Italy, with his headquarters in Milan. As governor, he proved himself an honest and upright official, and his personal life was blameless. When the bishop of Milan died, and when a suitable successor could not be found, the people unanimously chose Ambrose, though he was still a catechumen. He was baptized, ordained, and then consecrated bishop on December 7, 374. He immediately began his study of theology, and his lifestyle was a model of austerity. As bishop, he championed orthodoxy against the Arians, staunchly advocated the rights of the Church against the civil power, and was an exemplary shepherd of souls. It was by hearing Ambrose’s sermons that Augustine (see August 28) was converted (386) and baptized in Milan in 387. Ambrose wrote many important dogmatic, exegetical, moral, and ascetical works, and in recognition of these he is honored as one of the four great doctors of the Latin Church. He likewise wrote several Latin hymns, which are still used in the Liturgy of the Hours. He died on Holy Saturday, April 4, 397. His memorial is celebrated on the anniversary of his episcopal consecration.

    Tylenda, J. N. (2003). Saints and Feasts of the Liturgical Year (pp. 269–270). Washington, D.C.: Georgetown University Press.

    One would assume that someone would have to be ordained a deacon first (as it is one of the major orders), than a priest, than consecrated a bishop.  

    Offline poche

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #10 on: June 18, 2020, 01:27:07 AM »
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  • This is a two part answer. According to Canon Law;

    Can. 378 §1. In regard to the suitability of a candidate for the episcopacy, it is required that he is:
    1/ outstanding in solid faith, good morals, piety, zeal for souls, wisdom, prudence, and human virtues, and endowed with other qualities which make him suitable to fulfill the office in question;
    2/ of good reputation;
    3/ at least thirty-Five years old;
    4/ ordained to the presbyterate for at least Five years;
    5/ in possession of a doctorate or at least a licentiate in sacred scripture, theology, or canon law from an institute of higher studies approved by the Apostolic See, or at least truly expert in the same disciplines.
    §2. The definitive judgment concerning the suitability of the one to be promoted pertains to the Apostolic See.
    Can. 379 Unless he is prevented by a legitimate impediment, whoever has been promoted to the episcopacy must receive episcopal consecration within three months from the receipt of the apostolic letter and before he takes possession of his office.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P1D.HTM

    Also with respect to the election of the Pope Canon Law has this to say;

     Can. 332 §1. The Roman Pontiff obtains full and supreme power in the Church by his acceptance of legitimate election together with episcopal consecration. Therefore, a person elected to the supreme pontificate who is marked with episcopal character obtains this power from the moment of acceptance. If the person elected lacks episcopal character, however, he is to be ordained a bishop immediately.

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P16.HTM


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #11 on: June 18, 2020, 07:13:59 AM »
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  • It was my understanding that the episcopacy is the fullness of the priesthood (and is described as such in the form of the consecration); therefore, it seems to me that one would have to be a priest first.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #12 on: June 18, 2020, 07:21:55 AM »
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  • Tylenda, J. N. (2003). Saints and Feasts of the Liturgical Year (pp. 269–270). Washington, D.C.: Georgetown University Press.

    One would assume that someone would have to be ordained a deacon first (as it is one of the major orders), than a priest, than consecrated a bishop.  

    Diaconate is considered to be contained within the priesthood.  So a man could be ordained a priest without having first been ordained to the diaconate.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #13 on: June 18, 2020, 07:25:49 AM »
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  • It was my understanding that the episcopacy is the fullness of the priesthood (and is described as such in the form of the consecration); therefore, it seems to me that one would have to be a priest first.

    This is the common opinion of theologians, but there are some who disagree, arguing that the priesthood is contained within the episcopacy just as the diaconate is contained within the priesthood.  But that is the minority opinion, so a man consecrated without first having been ordained would be considered doubtful.  That is why when you hear of a priest being consecrated a bishop through some valid line while having been ordained by a doubtful line, the bishop/priest must be considered positively doubtful.  There are a few such in the Thuc lineage, where the episcopal consecration was done by one of the clearly valid lines but the man had first been dubiously ordained.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Do you have to be a priest to be a bishop?
    « Reply #14 on: June 18, 2020, 07:27:45 AM »
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  • This is the common opinion of theologians, but there are some who disagree, arguing that the priesthood is contained within the episcopacy just as the diaconate is contained within the priesthood.  But that is the minority opinion, so a man consecrated without first having been ordained would be considered doubtful.  That is why when you hear of a priest being consecrated a bishop through some valid line while having been ordained by a doubtful line, the bishop/priest must be considered positively doubtful.  There are a few such in the Thuc lineage, where the episcopal consecration was done by one of the clearly valid lines but the man had first been dubiously ordained.
    Thanks Lad.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)