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Author Topic: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)  (Read 2183 times)

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Online Yeti

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Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2022, 01:40:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: de Lugo on December 02, 2022, 01:10:55 PM
    I'm not sure I understand this post below, which looks like it may be a translation from another language, but they're saying something about "JPII music" being played during the consecration???
    .

    It sounds like they are saying that a piece of music that was written by a composer who worked for JP2 was sung during the ceremony.

    They don't explain why they think this is a problem. :confused::laugh1:
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    Offline frankielogue

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #16 on: December 02, 2022, 03:43:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: de Lugo on December 02, 2022, 01:10:55 PM
    I'm not sure I understand this post below, which looks like it may be a translation from another language, but they're saying something about "JPII music" being played during the consecration???

    Sedevacantist Consecration with John Paul II Music



    Sedevacantist Bishop Donald Sanborn, 72, "consecrated" Germán Fliess on November 30 as new bishop of his group, the Roman Catholic Institute.

    The "consecration" took place in Fraser, Michigan. In his homily, Sandborn justified this step by claiming that there hasn't been a pope since 1958 and that the Vatican has started a new religion after Pius XII.

    The surprising part of the ceremony was the inclusion of musical emotionalism of the Council Church, i.e. Father Marco Frisina's Anima Christi (magnificently sung, Video below).

    Frisina, 68, the current chapel master of the Lateran Basilica and head of the choir of Rome Diocese, was John Paul II's composer at court (“Jesus Christ, You Are My Life,” "Aprite le porte a Christo”).

    Sandborn was ordained a priest by Archbishop Lefebvre but was expelled from PiusX in 1983, and founded the Society of Pius V which he left in 1991. His episcopal lineage goes back to the controversial Huế Archbishop Ngô Đình Thục (+1984) who was excommunicated and reconciled with Rome twice.

    #newsBfubpljisq

    https://gloria.tv/post/PAEBnLdM2YJT2vcFWU3ky7ahA


    It was a stunning rendition of Anima Christi. Take a listen for yourself.

    So the composer worked for JPII - okay? They accept him as pope anyway. Lol.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #17 on: December 02, 2022, 04:33:33 PM »
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    • Meh ... don't like it at all.  I find even the "high" polyphony of Palestrina inferior to chant, but it's OK.  I didn't care for this composition.

    Now, if +Sanborn et al. are serious about their strong anti-"una cuм" stance, they should probably avoid using the composition of a "non-Catholic" during the Mass.  I don't have a problem with that part, because I don't hold that the man was categorically non-Catholic (without knowing more about him).  But either you believe the NO is a non-Catholic sect simpliciter or you don't.  I wouldn't want a composition by some Lutheran at a Catholic Mass.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #18 on: December 02, 2022, 04:34:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: frankielogue on December 02, 2022, 03:43:08 PM
    It was a stunning rendition of Anima Christi. Take a listen for yourself.

    Methinks it stunketh (not their execution of it, but the composition itself).
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #19 on: December 02, 2022, 04:44:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 02, 2022, 04:33:33 PM
    Meh ... don't like it at all.  I find even the "high" polyphony of Palestrina inferior to chant, but it's OK.  I didn't care for this composition.

    Now, if +Sanborn et al. are serious about their strong anti-"una cuм" stance, they should probably avoid using the composition of a "non-Catholic" during the Mass.  I don't have a problem with that part, because I don't hold that the man was categorically non-Catholic (without knowing more about him).  But either you believe the NO is a non-Catholic sect simpliciter or you don't.  I wouldn't want a composition by some Lutheran at a Catholic Mass.
    Assuming the gloriatv report is accurate/true, is it possible that the composer has since converted to the Faith?
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Online Yeti

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #20 on: December 02, 2022, 07:04:56 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on December 02, 2022, 04:33:33 PM
    Meh ... don't like it at all.  I find even the "high" polyphony of Palestrina inferior to chant, but it's OK.  I didn't care for this composition.

    Now, if +Sanborn et al. are serious about their strong anti-"una cuм" stance, they should probably avoid using the composition of a "non-Catholic" during the Mass.  I don't have a problem with that part, because I don't hold that the man was categorically non-Catholic (without knowing more about him).  But either you believe the NO is a non-Catholic sect simpliciter or you don't.  I wouldn't want a composition by some Lutheran at a Catholic Mass.
    .

    Oh, come on, this whole thing is silly. I've never heard of any rule that music in a ceremony can only be used if it was written by a Catholic. Every trad church in existence probably sings "Joy to the World" at midnight Mass, which was written by protestants, both in the words and in the melody. Probably music by Bach or Handel have been used in Mass.

    The Gloria TV article is just a hit piece and they are engaging in pharisaical scandal by accusing Bp. Sanborn of inconsistency in using the music of a Novus Ordo composer, when Bp. Sanborn never said it's wrong to use such music in a ceremony. If Gloria TV has a source for that claim, such as a theologian who says it's a sin to use music written by a non-Catholic in a ceremony, I'd sure like to see it.

    In any case, their false church uses rock music, rap music, communist hippie music, and who knows what else in their "liturgy". Why don't they write an article about that for a change.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #21 on: December 02, 2022, 08:11:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: Yeti on December 02, 2022, 07:04:56 PM
    Oh, come on, this whole thing is silly. I've never heard of any rule that music in a ceremony can only be used if it was written by a Catholic. Every trad church in existence probably sings "Joy to the World" at midnight Mass, which was written by protestants, both in the words and in the melody. Probably music by Bach or Handel have been used in Mass.

    Where did I say there was a "rule"?  I just it's inappropriate and unbecoming to use the works of non-Catholics during Catholic Liturgy.

    Again, some of you guys think that just because something was done pre-V2 or by "Trads" ... singing "Joy to the World" ... that it's appropriate.  Not that I myself ever heard "Joy to the World" actually DURING the Catholic Mass.  I've heard it only before Mass when various Christmas songs were sung but never during a Mass / Liturgy.

    One of the FIRST things St. Pius X did after becoming Pope was to ban a lot of aberrations that were already starting to creep in.  This has been done repeatedly at different times in Church history ... and will likely have to be done again.

    So, for instance, it's quite clear that women should not be engaged in Liturgical singing ... clearly taught by St. Pius X.  One could argue, as I do, that Missa Cantata is just a Low Mass that's decorated with some quasi- or extra- Liturgical singing.  One clue is that the Altar Servers actually say the responses that are sung by the choir.  But with a true Liturgical choir, they do not, as they actually take on the role of the Altar Servers.  But I've seen quite a few actual High Masses (with priest, deacon, subdeacon) with women singing in the choir ... banned by St. Pius X, but ignored by Trads.

    So the next Pope will also have to re-instate a lot of the measures that were instituted by St. Pius X but universally ignored.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #22 on: December 02, 2022, 08:18:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on December 02, 2022, 04:44:16 PM
    Assuming the gloriatv report is accurate/true, is it possible that the composer has since converted to the Faith?

    Hard to say.  But I myself don't hold that everybody who's in the Conciliar Church is ipso facto non Catholic.  I think that nearly all are in material error, but many are only in material error.  Well, 90% are pertinacious heretics, most likely, but that leaves 10%, which is a huge number.
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #23 on: December 02, 2022, 09:59:04 PM »
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    • Just remember folks, even in the good old days the Catholic Church was heavy into the Castrati.  I believe the last professional was around 1900 which means for roughly four hundred years boys were getting 'the axe' so their voices wouldn't change.  

    "Hit them high notes, boys.  We KNOW you can do it!"  
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    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #24 on: December 02, 2022, 10:43:59 PM »
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    • Just decided to actually listen to it and I have to say I'm surprised --- because I actually know it, and I haven't attended the New Order in decades.  That means the only place I really could've heard it was at an SSPX chapel and I believe that would've been in Post Falls.  I really have no idea where else I would've heard it.  Can't deny it's solemn music for a solemn occasion though.

    Anyone have a copy of the blue hymnal or green book sitting around and can check it out?
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #25 on: December 03, 2022, 03:08:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: MiracleOfTheSun on December 02, 2022, 09:59:04 PM
    Just remember folks, even in the good old days the Catholic Church was heavy into the Castrati.

    Uhm, yeah, that was obviously very wrong.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Consecration of New Traditional Catholic Bishop (Father Fliess)
    « Reply #26 on: December 03, 2022, 03:15:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: MiracleOfTheSun on December 02, 2022, 10:43:59 PM
    Just decided to actually listen to it and I have to say I'm surprised --- because I actually know it, and I haven't attended the New Order in decades.  That means the only place I really could've heard it was at an SSPX chapel and I believe that would've been in Post Falls.  I really have no idea where else I would've heard it.  Can't deny it's solemn music for a solemn occasion though.

    Anyone have a copy of the blue hymnal or green book sitting around and can check it out?

    I think that the central melody itself is an adaptation of a more familiar rendition.
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