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Offline 800 Cruiser

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Confirmation: What does it get me?
« on: September 27, 2018, 12:53:19 AM »
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  • So, I’ve got a couple of children waiting on confirmation by a traditional bishop. 
    The question occurred to me why a confirmation? What does it do? Any special powers or graces etc.? 
    I’ve been told by some that with confirmation I would then be a “soldier of god”. What about before then?
    Your thoughts ideas and opinions, as always, are looked forward to.
    Even including bashing me: because I have a thick skin and I may just join in on the bashing 😁

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #1 on: September 27, 2018, 02:19:21 AM »
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  • You receive the Holy Spirit at Confirmation. 
    To live with the Saints in Heaven is all bliss and glory....To live with the saints on Earth is just another story!  (unknown)


    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 05:07:40 AM »
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  • Cruiser, I suppose that you are new the idea of novenas. A novena is a series of prayers said each day for nine days (nove meaning nine).

    Here is a Novena to the Holy Ghost said immediately preceding Pentecost, when the apostles received the Holy Spirit and our Holy Church was born. Here you can read to answer your question "what does it get me?" The Prayer for the Seven Gifts of the Holy Ghost, which you will find herein, lists what you hope to receive through Confirmation and how they are useful to you.
    You might find it a bit much to say the whole novena, but I recommend praying the prayer for the gifts as you approach your children's Confirmation. It will help you to absorb the knowledge that you need to guide them.

    God bless you and yours.

    I forgot to say also, that each day concentrates on a different. I personally find that very helpful and enriching.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    NOVENA to the HOLY GHOST
    The novena to the Holy Ghost is the oldest of all novenas since it was first made at the direction of Our Lord when He sent His apostles back to Jerusalem to await the coming of the Holy Ghost on the First Pentecost. It is still the only novena officially prescribed by the Church. Addressed to the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity, it is a powerful plea for the light, strength and love so sorely needed by every Christian.
     
     First Day                  Holy Spirit! Lord of Light!
                                         From Thy clear celestial height.
                                         Thy pure beaming radiance give!
     
     The Holy Ghost Only one thing is important - eternal salvation. Only one thing, therefore, is to be feared - sin. Sin is the result of ignorance, weakness, and indifference. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of Light, of Strength, and of Love. With His sevenfold gifts He enlightens the mind, strengthens the will, and inflames the heart with love of God. To ensure our salvation we ought to invoke the Divine Spirit daily, for "The Spirit helpeth our infirmity. We know not what we should pray for as we ought. But the Spirit Himself asketh for us."
     
     Prayer Almighty and eternal God, Who has vouchsafed to regenerate us by water and the Holy Ghost, and hast given us forgiveness of all sins, vouchsafe to send forth from heaven upon us Thy sevenfold Spirit, the Spirit of Wisdom and
     Understanding, the Spirit of Counsel and Fortitude, the Spirit of Knowledge
     and Piety, and fill us with the Spirit of Holy Fear. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be to the Father (seven times)
     
     Act of Consecration to the Holy Ghost
     On my knees before the great multitude of heavenly witnesses, I offer myself, soul and body, to Thee, Eternal Spirit of God. I adore the brightness of Thy purity, the unerring keenness of Thy justice, and the might of Thy love. Thou art the Strength and Light of my soul. In Thee I live and move and am. I desire never to grieve Thee by unfaithfulness to grace, and I pray with all my heart to be kept from the smallest sin against Thee. Mercifully guard my every thought and grant that I may always watch for Thy light, and listen to Thy voice, and follow Thy gracious inspirations. I cling to Thee and give myself to Thee and ask Thee, by Thy compassion, to watch over me in my weakness. Holding the pierced Feet of Jesus, and looking at His five wounds, and trusting in His  Precious Blood, and adoring His opened side and stricken Heart, I implore Thee, Adorable Spirit, Helper of my infirmity, so to keep me in Thy grace that I may never sin against Thee. Give me grace, O Holy Ghost, Spirit of the Father and the Son, to say to Thee always and everywhere, "Speak Lord, for Thy servant heareth." Amen.
     
     Prayer for the Seven Gifts of the Holy Ghost
     O Lord Jesus Christ Who, before ascending into heaven, didst promise to send the Holy Ghost to finish Thy work in the souls of Thy Apostles and Disciples, deign to grant the same Holy Spirit to me that He may perfect in my soul the work of Thy grace and Thy love. Grant me

    the Spirit of Wisdom that I may despise the perishable things of this world and aspire only after the things that are eternal;
    the Spirit of Understanding to enlighten my mind with the light of Thy divine truth;
    the Spirit of Counsel that I may ever choose the surest way of pleasing God and gaining heaven;
    the Spirit of Fortitude that I may bear my cross with Thee and that I may overcome with courage all the obstacles that oppose my salvation;
    the Spirit of Knowledge that I may know God and know myself and grow perfect in the science of the Saints;
    the Spirit of Piety that I may find the service of God sweet and amiable;
    the Spirit of Fear that I may be filled with a loving reverence towards God and may dread in any way to displease Him.
    Mark me, dear Lord, with the sign of Thy true disciples and animate me in all things with Thy Spirit. Amen.
     
     Second Day           Come, Thou Father of the poor!
                                         Come, with treasures which endure!
                                         Come, Thou Light of all that live!
     
     The Gift of Fear fills us with a sovereign respect for God, and makes us dread nothing so much as to offend Him by sin. It is a fear that arises, not from the thought of hell, but from sentiments of reverence and filial submission to our heavenly Father. It is the fear that is the beginning of wisdom, detaching us from the worldly pleasures that could in any way separate us from God. "They that fear the Lord will prepare their hearts, and in His sight will sanctify their souls."
     
     Prayer
     Come, O blessed Spirit of Holy Fear, penetrate my inmost heart, that I may set Thee, my Lord and God, before my face forever, help me to shun all things that can offend Thee, and make me worthy to appear before the pure eyes of Thy Divine Majesty in heaven, where Thou livest and reignest in the unity of the ever Blessed Trinity, God, world without end. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be (seven times), Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts
     
     Third Day                Thou, of all consolers best,
                                         Visiting the troubled breast,
                                         Dost refreshing peace bestow.
     
     The Gift of Piety begets in our hearts a filial affection for God as our most loving Father. It inspires us to love and respect for His sake persons and things consecrated to Him, as well as those who are vested with His authority, His Blessed Mother and the Saints, the Church and its visible Head, our parents and superiors, our country and its rulers. He who is filled with the gift of Piety finds the practice of his religion, not a burdensome duty, but a delightful service. Where there is love, there is no labor.
     
     Prayer Come, O Blessed Spirit of Piety, possess my heart. Enkindle therein such a love for God, that I may find satisfaction only in His service, and for His sake lovingly submit to all legitimate authority. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be (7 times), Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts
     


    Fourth Day            Thou in toil art comfort sweet;
                                         Pleasant coolness in the heat;
                                         Solace in the midst of woe.
     
     By The Gift of Fortitude the soul is strengthened against natural fear, and
     supported to the end in the performance of duty. Fortitude imparts to the will an impulse and energy which move it to undertake without hesitancy the most arduous tasks, to face dangers, to trample under foot human respect, and to endure without complaint the slow martyrdom of even lifelong tribulation. "He that shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved."
     
     Prayer Come, O Blessed Spirit of Fortitude uphold my soul in time of troubles and adversity, sustain my efforts after holiness, strengthen my weakness, give
     me courage against all the assaults of my enemies, that I may never be
     overcome and separated from Thee, my God and greatest Good. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be (7 times), Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts
     
     Fifth Day                  Light immortal! Light Divine!
                                         Visit Thou these hearts of Thine,
                                         And our inmost being fill!
     
     The Gift of Knowledge enables the soul to evaluate created things at their true worth - in their relation to God. Knowledge unmasks the pretense of creatures, reveals their emptiness, and points out their only true purpose as instruments in the service of God. It shows us the loving care of God even in adversity, and directs us to glorify Him in every circumstance of life. Guided by its light, we put first things first, and prize the friendship of God beyond all else. "Knowledge is a fountain of life to him that possesseth it."
     
     Prayer Come, O Blessed Spirit of Knowledge, and grant that I may perceive the will of the Father; show me the nothingness of earthly things, that I may realize their vanity and use them only for Thy glory and my own salvation, looking ever beyond them to Thee, and Thy eternal rewards. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be (7 times), Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts
     
     Sixth Day                If Thou take Thy grace away,
                                         Nothing pure in man will stay;
                                         All his good is turned to ill.
     
     The Gift of Understanding helps us to grasp the meaning of the truths of our holy religion. By faith we know them, but by Understanding we learn to appreciate and relish them. It enables us to penetrate the inner meaning of revealed truths and through them to be quickened to newness of life. Our faith ceases to be sterile and inactive, but inspires a mode of life that bears eloquent testimony to the faith that is in us; we begin to "walk worthy of God in all things pleasing, and increasing in the knowledge of God."
     
     Prayer Come, O Spirit of Understanding, and enlighten our minds, that we may know and believe all the mysteries of salvation; and may merit at last to see the
     eternal light of Thy Light; and in the light of glory to have a clear vision
     of Thee and the Father and the Son. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be (7 times), Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts
     
     Seventh Day                   Heal our wounds - our strength renew;
                                                  On our dryness pour Thy dew;
                                                  Wash the stains of guilt away!
     
     The Gift of Counsel endows the soul with supernatural prudence, enabling it to judge promptly and rightly what must be done, especially in difficult circumstances. Counsel applies the principles furnished by Knowledge and Understanding to the innumerable concrete cases that confront us in the course of our daily duty as parents, teachers, public servants, and Christian citizens. Counsel is supernatural common sense, a priceless treasure in the quest of salvation. "Above all things, pray to the Most High, that He may direct thy way in truth."
     
     Prayer Come, O Spirit of Counsel, help and guide me in all my ways, that I may always do Thy holy will. Incline my heart to that which is good; turn it away from all that is evil, and direct me by the straight path of Thy commandments to that goal of eternal life for which I long. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be (7 times), Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts
     
     Eighth Day                       Bend the stubborn heart and will;
                                                  Melt the frozen, warm the chill;
                                                  Guide the steps that go astray!
     
     The Gift of Wisdom: Embodying all the other gifts, as charity embraces all the other virtues, Wisdom is the most perfect of the gifts. Of Wisdom it is written "all good things come to me with her, and innumerable riches through her hands." It is the gift of Wisdom that strengthens our faith, fortifies hope, perfects charity, and promotes the practice of virtue in the highest degree. Wisdom enlightens the mind to discern and relish things divine, in the appreciation of which earthly joys lose their savor, whilst the Cross of Christ yields a divine sweetness according to the words of the Savior: "Take up thy cross and follow me, for my yoke is sweet and my burden light."
     
     Prayer Come, O Spirit of Wisdom, and reveal to my soul the mysteries of heavenly things, their exceeding greatness, power and beauty. Teach me to love them above and beyond all the passing joys and satisfactions of earth. Help me to attain them and possess them for ever. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be (7 times), Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts
     


    Ninth Day               Thou, on those who evermore
                                         Thee confess and Thee adore
                                         In Thy sevenfold gifts, descend:
                                         Give them comfort when they die;
                                         Give the life with Thee on high;
                                         Give them joys which never end. Amen.
     
     The Fruits of the Holy Ghost The gifts of the Holy Ghost perfect the supernatural virtues by enabling us to practice them with greater docility to divine inspiration. As we grow in the knowledge and love of God under the direction of the Holy Ghost, our service becomes more sincere and generous, the practice of virtue becomes more perfect. Such acts of virtue leave the heart filled with joy and consolation and are known as Fruits of the Holy Ghost. These Fruits in turn render the practice of virtue more attractive and become a powerful incentive for still greater efforts in the service of God, to serve Whom is to reign.
     
     Prayer Come, O Divine Spirit, fill my heart with Thy heavenly fruits, Thy charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, faith, mildness, and temperance, that I may never weary on the service of God, but by continued faithful submission to Thy inspiration may merit to be united eternally with Thee in the love of the Father and the Son. Amen.
     
     Our Father, Hail Mary, Glory be (7 times), Act of Consecration, Prayer for the Seven Gifts
     
     ****************************************************************
     
     Prayer to the Holy Ghost
     Come, O Holy Ghost, fill the hearts of Thy faithful, and kindle in them the fire of Thy love.
     V. Send forth Thy Spirit, and they shall be created;
     R. And Thou shalt renew the face of the earth.
     Let us pray - Oh God, Who hast instructed the hearts of the faithful by the light of the Holy Ghost, grant that by the same Spirit we may be always truly wise, and ever rejoice in His consolations. Through Christ Our Lord. (From the Roman Missal).
     ****************************************************************
     
     O Holy Spirit, beloved of my soul, I adore You.
     Enlighten me, guide me, strengthen me, console me.
     Tell me what I should do, give me Your orders.
     I promise to submit myself to all that You desire of me
     and to accept all that You permit to happen to me.
     Let me only know Your will. Amen


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #3 on: September 27, 2018, 05:54:08 AM »
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  • Absolutely! As Nadir said, pray daily the Novena to the Holy Ghost!


    Confirmation

    "To speak of Baptism is to speak only of a person's incorporation into the Body of Christ, the necessary beginning of the process of his sanctification. Once he has been raised to the order of grace, he is disposed to receive the other Sacraments, which were instituted for the completion of the process. Baptism makes one a child of God, but only a child; Confirmation makes him a mature Christian, a soldier, and an apostle.... As a "child," he was in the role of one still yet receiving the Faith, as still growing, as not yet ready to preach before his Pentecost. Confirmation brings its subject to maturity as a son of God, by filling him with the Holy Ghost and His Sevenfold Gifts..." - Fr. Wathen, Who Shall Ascend?

    Also, see the Baltimore Catechism on the sacrament of Confirmation.



    For a small gain they travel far; for eternal life many will scarcely lift a foot from the ground. - Thomas A Kempis

    Offline 800 Cruiser

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #4 on: September 27, 2018, 12:10:47 PM »
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  • Thank you both. 
    Is there any particular day proscribed to begin this novena, and is it done on a continual basis (in the tenth day start it over again)?
    Your answer about confirmation being the time when one receives the Holy Spirit does more to answer my question, I think. But that leads me to ask wether I am empty of the Holy Ghost as of right now, as I have not been confirmed. Also is spirit and ghost used interchangeably or do they mean different things?  


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #5 on: September 27, 2018, 01:41:29 PM »
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  • Thank you both.
    Is there any particular day proscribed to begin this novena, and is it done on a continual basis (in the tenth day start it over again)?
    Your answer about confirmation being the time when one receives the Holy Spirit does more to answer my question, I think. But that leads me to ask wether I am empty of the Holy Ghost as of right now, as I have not been confirmed. Also is spirit and ghost used interchangeably or do they mean different things?  
    .
    Traditionally, in English, the Third Person of the Blessed Trinity is the Holy Ghost. The term "ghost" has a closer meaning with person, compared to "spirit." During Vatican II the English speaking world was awash with the so-called spirit of Vatican II, which became the Ace-in-the-hole answer to any questions regarding why changes were happening when Vat.II did not specifically call for those changes. One of the casualties of Vat.II was the abandonment of "Holy Ghost" in English, in favor of "Holy Spirit." When questioned about this change, priests were heard saying that when they say "ghost" it might scare children. But no one ever came up with a case where any child had been "scared" when a priest said "Holy Ghost." This was all according to the "spirit of Vat.II" which was nothing but an excuse to instigate change. By "change" is understood the destruction of Tradition and the establishment of a false church. 
    .
    If they had been honest, they would have said the unclean spirit of Vat.II.
    .
    Properly understood, Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit mean the same thing. But like with so many other things in present-day religion, there are nuances. The term "spirit" has been co-opted by Modernists to mean enthusiasm, zeal, excitement, happiness, joy, energy, positive attitude, enjoyment, friendliness, goodness, beauty and prosperity. Or any combination thereof. Consequently, the opposite is subtly implied toward "ghost" especially in the autumn, when we have haunted theme parks, scary hay rides, jack-o-lantern tablecloths, children dressed as ghouls, Dia de los Muertos, for "When the world is black and gold you know it's Halloween." 
    .
    So put it all together, and it comes down basically to choosing which side of the battle you're on. If you don't care about the battle and you just want to be happily on good terms with the majority, then say "Holy Spirit" and leave everyone confused whether you're on the side of Newchurch, opposed to Tradition, or not. Or, say "Holy Ghost" and leave no doubt that you are on the side of Tradition, come what may. It's your choice. Some people just don't like battles, but for others, some things are worth fighting for. 
    .
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    Offline 800 Cruiser

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #6 on: September 27, 2018, 02:01:21 PM »
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  • Thank you Neil. 
    Could you tell me if, in traditional Catholicism, both are used?  And if so would you please expand on the traditional meanings and typical usages? I would really appreciate that. 

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #7 on: September 27, 2018, 09:30:31 PM »
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  • Also is spirit and ghost used interchangeably or do they mean different things?  
    Properly understood, Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit mean the same thing. But like with so many other things in present-day religion, there are nuances.
    English has different words for the same things due to the merging of Anglo-Saxon and Norman French (after the Norman Conquest). The words derived from Anglo-Saxon tend to be similar to modern German vocabulary, while the words derived from French tend to be similar to Latin vocabulary.

    "Spirit" is closer to Latin "Spiritus" and French "Esprit", while I'm confident "Ghost" is derived from an Anglo-Saxon word. (The German phrase for the 3rd person of the Trinity is der Heilige Geist.)

    Archbishop Lefebvre belonged to a congregation often called the Holy Ghost Fathers in English, but the latin name is Congregatio Santi Spiritus (abbreviation C.S.Sp.), and the members are also referred to as Spiritans.

    I have not personally checked this in detail, but I've heard that the King James Version translated the greek word pneuma as "Holy Ghost" where it clearly referred to the 3rd person of the Trinity, but in other contexts translated it as Spirit. But the meanings of "ghost' and "spirit" have also changed some in 400 years.


    Offline 800 Cruiser

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #8 on: September 28, 2018, 12:12:34 AM »
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  • Thank you for the etymological background. I did learn something new: about how our modern English is a combining of two other languages. The nearly overnight change in English has been on my back burner for some time now. 
    However it didn’t answer my more specific question on the meanings and usages in the traditional church. If this makes any sense. 

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #9 on: September 28, 2018, 12:55:51 AM »
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  • Thank you Neil.
    Could you tell me if, in traditional Catholicism, both are used?  And if so would you please expand on the traditional meanings and typical usages? I would really appreciate that.
    .
    You're welcome.
    .
    I can't speak for the entire English-speaking world, but I know what has been going on in my area, influenced by the larger world in general. I have known traditional priests who hold both views, that saying "Holy Spirit" is synonymous with "Holy Ghost," and alternatively, "Holy Ghost" is the preferred term and real Catholics ought to avoid saying "Holy Spirit."
    .
    One prominent example of the former was Fr. Alfred Joseph Kunz, who was brutally murdered in Dane, Wisconsin, in 1998 (March 4th). He was the pastor of a diocesan parish there, and Principal of the school attached. He offered the Novus Ordo under obedience to the local bishop but he also offered a weekly Traditional Latin Mass for his parish, which was very well attended. He was a doctor of Canon Law, and very well connected in local happenings (behind the scenes). He was an outspoken critic of the "international brotherhood of homosexual priests" as he called it, and was in the process of naming names when he was killed. There are still no suspects, officially, 20 years later. But surely there are people alive today who know full well who the murderer(s) was/are.
    .
    Fr. Kunz was beloved by the children in his parish, and taught regular catechism classes. He was always prepared to state emphatically that "Holy Ghost" and "Holy Spirit" are synonymous and completely interchangeable. He made absolutely no distinction between the two terms. He did not, as far as I know, carry on about it. He simply made the statement, "They have the same meaning." He was known to retain the traditional form of the Sacrament of Confirmation, which he said was, "...(Receive) the Holy Spirit..." But since it was actually spoken in Latin, the English translation could equally be given as "...Holy Ghost..."
    .
    A good example of the latter is Monsignor Patrick Perez of Garden Grove, CA. A few years ago, he made the announcement that he is finished making excuses for the use of "Holy Spirit," and that from then on, every instance where it comes up he will change it to "Holy Ghost," and that the entire congregation is thereby directed to correct text in their prayers, bulletins, personal letters, speeches, liturgical texts and music sung, to replace "Holy Spirit" with "Holy Ghost." The reason, he said, was that the word "spirit" took on a new meaning at Vatican II in which it became the main excuse for every innovation that followed (e.g., "the spirit of Vat.II"), and our little congregation is all about resisting all those corrupting changes. Therefore he was taking a stand. And there has been very little opposition to this practice. Everyone uses "Holy Ghost," and quite miraculously (?) not a single child has been "scared" by the term "ghost!"
    .
    Therefore, while there seems to remain a certain number of traditional Catholics who use "Holy Spirit," the trend seems to be increasingly toward "Holy Ghost" while Novus Ordo types continue to prefer "Holy Spirit." That is, in English-speaking circles. I have no idea what's going on in other languages. Apparently in German there is hardly an issue since their word for Spirit is Geist.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #10 on: September 28, 2018, 05:15:02 AM »
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  • From the Baltimore Catechism;
    Q. 670. What is Confirmation?
    A. Confirmation is a Sacrament through which we receive the Holy Ghost to make us strong and perfect Christians and soldiers of Jesus Christ.

    Q. 671. When was Confirmation instituted?
    A. The exact time at which Confirmation was instituted is not known. But as this Sacrament was administered by
    the Apostles and numbered with the other Sacraments instituted by Our Lord, it is certain that He instituted this
    Sacrament also and instructed His Apostles in its use, at some time before His ascension into heaven.

    Q. 672. Why is Confirmation so called?
    A. Confirmation is so called from its chief effect, which is to strengthen or render us more firm in whatever belongs to our faith and religious duties.

    Q. 694. Is it a sin to neglect Confirmation?
    A. It is a sin to neglect Confirmation, especially in these evil days when faith and morals are exposed to so many
    and such violent temptations.

    Q. 695. What do we mean by "these evil days"?
    A. By "these evil days" we mean the present age or century in which we are living, surrounded on all sides by
    unbelief, false doctrines, bad books, bad example and temptation in every form.
    Q. 698. Which are the effects of Confirmation?
    A. The effects of Confirmation are an increase of sanctifying grace, the strengthening of our faith, and the gifts of
    the Holy Ghost.

    Q. 699. Which are the gifts of the Holy Ghost?
    A. The gifts of the Holy Ghost are Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety, and Fear of
    the Lord.

    Q. 700. Why do we receive the gift of Fear of the Lord?
    A. We receive the gift of Fear of the Lord to fill us with a dread of sin.

    Q. 701. Why do we receive the gift of Piety?
    A. We receive the gift of Piety to make us love God as a Father, and obey Him because we love Him.

    Q. 702. Why do we receive the gift of Knowledge?
    A. We receive the gift of Knowledge to enable us to discover the will of God in all things.

    Q. 703. Why do we receive the gift of Fortitude?
    A. We receive the gift of Fortitude to strengthen us to do the will of God in all things.

    Q. 704. Why do we receive the gift of Counsel?
    A. We receive the gift of Counsel to warn us of the deceits of the devil, and of the dangers to salvation.


    https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/catechism/baltimore-catechism/lesson-15-on-confirmation




    Offline Jaynek

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    Re: Confirmation: What does it get me?
    « Reply #11 on: September 28, 2018, 07:05:54 AM »
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  • Could you tell me if, in traditional Catholicism, both are used?  And if so would you please expand on the traditional meanings and typical usages? I would really appreciate that.
    There was a discussion on this topic a few months ago that should give you a sense of the range of opinions on this among forum members.  As you can see, we do not all agree.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/the-sacred-catholic-liturgy-chant-prayers/holy-ghost-or-spirit/

     

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