I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm afraid to discipline entirely. I am just over cautious about spanking or methods that some people think are too harsh.

I blanket trained my daughter so that when I work in the garden (community plot) she won't crawl away and get into things. When she would start to take off, I would move her back,grasp her hands, and look her in the eyes to tell her she must stay. It took practice, but now she will reach the edge and look for me, lol.    Anyway, the Mom with a plot next to me criticizes my method, while her kids are smashing tomatoes. She said the inventor of blanket training is abusive. I have no idea who that even is.  It worries me how nosey people are.

The kids I babysit are much better behaved for me than their mother, and I'm the one who makes them pick up their toys and turn off TV. Hopefully this means I have a good approach.

Oh and CPS has nothing on my apartment cleanliness.I am a bit of a neat freak. :)

I am going to resurrect this thread because it is a serious problem with trads.
They don't know what incredible damage they do to the faith. When a new family comes in, you don't know their circuмstances. You don't know how much they are in need of the sacraments. You dont know what struggles they may face to just bring their children to mass, often one parent doesn't support their efforts and they're on their own trying to bring their children to Christ. When these families come to Mass, they are coming because they know how important it is and so their sacrifices throughout the rest of the week to get to mass are nothing.
But when someone makes it well known that they should bugger off with their talking baby and wiggly toddler, it is heart breaking. How is this the true faith and true Christianity if grown up people are so spiritually undisciplined that they refuse mercy on little children?

For newcomers to the faith, it seems horrifyingly hypocritical that a religion that promulgates openness to life will not suffer little children in church. It puts *children* off of Catholicism because they see it as a religion full of lies and hypocrisy. They say they are Christian, but Methodists behave in a more Christian and charitable way than do catholics. To me, that is the saddest thing of all. Children are given the impression that they are unwelcome in the Presence of Jesus, and because of this, they're very tempted to just go their local protestant church with their Sunday schools and welcoming of babies and children.
Maybe they can't have the Real Presence, but at least young families aren't regarded as the scuм of the earth.

At my chapel, I am glad when I see young children at Mass. We don't have any regulars with small children at our chapel, but when visitors come or one of a few families who come sometimes come with their small children I am glad. And they are not treated badly by any of the faithful, even when the children cry. But I guess this is a problem at some other chapels.

I want to go to your chapel!

I will say that this one area where the resistance totally has it on the SSPX. Maybe because they do most of their masses in homes or that people go to a lot of trouble to cone or whatever, but there always babies cooing and talking and singing in all the videos and recorded sermons and the priest's don't seem one bit perturbed by it, nor do any of the faithful.

Matto, are you in phoenix?

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Matto, are you in phoenix?

No. I live in New York.

Will everybody wake up!  
Do not let the devil catch you sleeping at the wheel!  
That's how he managed to hijack our Mass, our Priests, our Sacraments, and everything else we hold dear.

Because the Mass is THE MOST HOLY SACRIFICE OF THE MASS, no one, absolutely no one should be deprived of any opportunity for partaking in this Oblation.
It is the one moment in all of eternity where we, the Church Militant, the Church Suffering and the Church Triumphant come together before God to offer up the Most Spotless Victim in propitiation of our sins.

Knowing that, why would you be asking anyone to stay home just so you can partake in silence and "reverence"?
You want silence, go turn off the TV!

The Mass is THE ULTIMATE MOMENT when Good triumphs over evil, the more of us that partake, the greater the triumph!
Crying, cooing, wailing, fussing, itching, scratching, sneezing, coughing, and yes in some cases maybe even snoring - none of these should get in the way.  We ought to not only encourage them all to come we should be helping them when they get there!
It's not about you or me it's about defeating the devil!

I have been dealing with this issue for 22 years and, so far 10 children, if I stayed home because of the chance my baby would be fussy at Mass and perhaps upset some people I would have been home for two decades now!
Instead I rejoice at the end of each Mass that we got one over the devil!

A notice to all:
The parent having to deal with the child is the one MOST distracted, distraught, embarrassed, humiliated, distracted, inconvenienced, helpless, overwhelmed, distracted, and at the end of it all - EXHAUSTED!  Oh and did I mention distracted?

I beg you all, please, remember why we are there.

p.s. A mother had to bring the Priest to Mass as an infant/child so you would have the privilege today of attending one!

I agree --

For those old codgers that have to have their silence and bury their head in their missal (usually these same men don't like High Masses!), they should turn off the TV more.

One might think that these men don't own a TV, or that they don't watch it. WRONG. If they had more quiet in their life, they wouldn't be so desperate for their "first shot at silence all week" on Sunday morning.

In all my years, I think I've met a handful of Baby Boomers that don't own a TV. I honestly can't think of one at the moment :) I know *many* more TV-less households from the younger generations, including my own. TV is a central part of American suburban middle-class culture, and who do you think invented it? The Baby Boomers.

If they want silence, go to a quiet place inside or outside and read, make a meditation, etc. so you're not starving for silence. If your home is too noisy, do something about it. Turn off the TV and the noise. Put your foot down to your wife and kids if necessary.

Public worship can't replace an individual's separate need for quiet, mental prayer, and all those past the toddler stage of the Spiritual Life should introduce mental prayer (meditation) into their prayer life.

Public worship (Mass) involves responses, gestures, being in common, community, and singing reverent hymns and liturgical music (chant). There is indeed a community aspect to Mass. It's just not the only aspect.

All those things the Novus Ordo says about the Mass -- being the people of God coming together to offer sacrifice -- that's all true! We all unite our hearts, prayers and sacrifices with the priest's sacrifice, and the one Sacrifice of Calvary.  

The Priest, in persona Christi, effects Transubstantiation and the making-present-again of the Sacrifice of Calvary -- but it's also true that the congregation is not a mere body of spectators. That's why Catholic Churches don't use terms like "guests", "audience", "crowd", "bleachers", etc.

It's just that the Novus Ordo exaggerates one truth of what the Mass is about, and completely downplays other aspects.