Author Topic: Children at Mass  (Read 10319 times)

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Offline spouse of Jesus

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Children at Mass
« on: May 03, 2009, 09:06:02 PM »
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  • A Catholic mother says:

    At our church there is someone who brings her unruly infants to Mass, and one of them even tries to sing (wail?) with the choir. I wonder what kind of charity that exhibits to our hard-working choir, which devotes much time to preparing elevating Catholic sacred music for the edification of our congregation. Sometimes we can't even follow the priest's sermon because of crying infants. Yet I travel hours to get to a Traditional Latin Mass and worship God in an atmosphere of reverent quiet and meditation. At this rate I might as well go back to the Novus Ordo service!

    Our poor priest has several times announced from the pulpit that infants should be taken to the crying room, but certain parents seem bound and determined to foist their children's disciplinary problems onto the whole congregation. These parents would never get away with such uncouth and uncharitable behavior if they took their infants to a symphony concert or opera, for which people spend $100 dollars for a ticket. And yet the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is supposed to be priceless.

    Perhaps the fault here lies with the other members of the congregation. When an infant becomes disruptive to the point that the Mass is being disrupted, if the parent doesn't have the good sense God gave him to remove the infant, then the usher or some other member of the congregation should intervene.

    Here a Catholic article:
    http://www.traditio.com/feature/children.htm

    I don't know if they are sedes but they are nevertheless right in many things.





    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #1 on: May 03, 2009, 11:24:30 PM »
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  • I would disagree with the infant over your shoulder comment in that article. Mothers with very small babies need communion too, and I wouldn't even be able to go to Mass if I couldn't take the baby with me. I'll have a small infant at the end of July, and I'm not going to miss Holy Communion because I have a newborn.

    To be fair, I have other older children, and of course, if they're misbehaving (as sometimes would occur,) I would remove them if they were causing a scene, but I wouldn't keep them there wailing and fussing. They don't misbehave anymore. My youngest is four, besides the one on the way.

    I wonder if the author of that article has any children himself. I would imagine not by his overly-judgmental tone, but that's just what I got out of the article.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,


    Offline parentsfortruth

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #2 on: May 03, 2009, 11:41:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    A Catholic mother says:

    At our church there is someone who brings her unruly infants to Mass, and one of them even tries to sing (wail?) with the choir. I wonder what kind of charity that exhibits to our hard-working choir, which devotes much time to preparing elevating Catholic sacred music for the edification of our congregation. Sometimes we can't even follow the priest's sermon because of crying infants. Yet I travel hours to get to a Traditional Latin Mass and worship God in an atmosphere of reverent quiet and meditation. At this rate I might as well go back to the Novus Ordo service!

    Our poor priest has several times announced from the pulpit that infants should be taken to the crying room, but certain parents seem bound and determined to foist their children's disciplinary problems onto the whole congregation. These parents would never get away with such uncouth and uncharitable behavior if they took their infants to a symphony concert or opera, for which people spend $100 dollars for a ticket. And yet the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is supposed to be priceless.

    Perhaps the fault here lies with the other members of the congregation. When an infant becomes disruptive to the point that the Mass is being disrupted, if the parent doesn't have the good sense God gave him to remove the infant, then the usher or some other member of the congregation should intervene.

    Here a Catholic article:
    http://www.traditio.com/feature/children.htm

    I don't know if they are sedes but they are nevertheless right in many things.






    As for the woman writing here, I empathize with her. If some parents would keep their children in church when Holy Mass was going on, and wouldn't remove them if they were wailing so loud that they were distracting others, that would ire me as well. It's already hard enough for me (probably part of my temperament, but perhaps a fault, hopefully one that I can correct, with God's help) to concentrate when I pray, and having children wailing loudly during Mass doesn't help at all. If I were her, I would go and speak to the priest, and mention it perhaps, and if that doesn't help, I would go after Mass and admonish (KINDLY) the mother of said wailing children, and approach her CHARITABLY and let her know these things.

    On the other hand, if whoever is doing the admonishing cannot approach it in a CHARITABLE way, then they shouldn't do it at all, and simply PRAY for said mother to come to some kind of admonition from Our Lord. Offer up the Mass for her specifically, and bear it as a suffering that one can offer up to God, by being distracted during Mass, and for the ire of Our Lord (if any) that He experiences by distracting children during Mass.

    As for the STUPID comment about "I might as well go back to the Novus Ordo," I question the motive of this woman based on that. There should be NO QUESTION as to why you're going to the traditional Mass. If you even have that question in your MIND, you shouldn't even THINK about going to Holy Communion at a traditional mass, because the Novus Ordo service is an entirely different religion. That would be like an Episcopalian coming to a Catholic Mass and saying, "I might as well go back to the Episcopalian church if I have to listen to this whining." Go be a protestant, then. Don't infect the traditional Mass with your presence if you're going to dismiss it because of a situation that's out of your control. How completely absurd. It's almost as if this woman perhaps may be purposely trying to cause dissent! If you still believe that the Novus Ordo has any validity to it, you should go back there and spare the congregation your whining.
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline Credo

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 09:44:41 PM »
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  • I can't speak for your church, but I have had terrible experiences in the crying rooms. Mothers gabbing among each other, more so out of boredom, because the speakers never work.
    They have toys and books in them which just baffles me. My child acts up and for punishment they have to go to a room with toys and books.  :fryingpan: So what is going to keep my child from acting up next time? The cry rooms are like playplaces compared to what is going on in the pews to them!!!

    If mine get to carrying on, I take them out of the church altogether until I can calm them down.

    Offline radtrad

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #4 on: July 28, 2009, 10:19:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    A Catholic mother says:

    At our church there is someone who brings her unruly infants to Mass, and one of them even tries to sing (wail?) with the choir. I wonder what kind of charity that exhibits to our hard-working choir, which devotes much time to preparing elevating Catholic sacred music for the edification of our congregation. Sometimes we can't even follow the priest's sermon because of crying infants. Yet I travel hours to get to a Traditional Latin Mass and worship God in an atmosphere of reverent quiet and meditation. At this rate I might as well go back to the Novus Ordo service!

    Our poor priest has several times announced from the pulpit that infants should be taken to the crying room, but certain parents seem bound and determined to foist their children's disciplinary problems onto the whole congregation. These parents would never get away with such uncouth and uncharitable behavior if they took their infants to a symphony concert or opera, for which people spend $100 dollars for a ticket. And yet the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is supposed to be priceless.

    Perhaps the fault here lies with the other members of the congregation. When an infant becomes disruptive to the point that the Mass is being disrupted, if the parent doesn't have the good sense God gave him to remove the infant, then the usher or some other member of the congregation should intervene.


    This is a good topic.  When we were still attending the NO, went to a church where the priest was known to be a "good liturgist" ( :idea:). He approached my wife before mass had even started and told her that they had a cry room in the basement for children.  My wife told him that she likes to introduce the mass as early as possible to the children.  Later in mass, when one of the lectors were reading, the priest, from his chair, pointed at my wife and then motioned toward the back door of the church.  Finally, when he was giving his homily, he stopped in the middle and said "I can't continue.  You need to leave.  you are too distracting".  So my wife got up with our 3 month old and went to the cry room.  It should be noted that our child was not crying.  She was occasionally cooing, but nothing that I considered distracting.  This priest wanted no children in his church (he had asked her to go to the basement PRIOR to mass).

    This may be an extreme but it still highlights this issue.  However, I do think that mass demands the utmost reverence from all that are there (kind of ironic when talking about NO isn't it?)  There have been times when I have seen children aged 10 bringing in buckets of markers to mass.

    So, should parents take turns staying home if they have a baby?  I don't think so but I am open to others' opinions.  I think that children need to get exposure to the mass as early as possible.  If the child is disruptive then he or she should absolutely be taken out of mass.  

    Quote from: spouse of Jesus

    Here a Catholic article:
    http://www.traditio.com/feature/children.htm

    I don't know if they are sedes but they are nevertheless right in many things.






    From the Traditio site:  The TRADITIO Network doesn't hold to the sede-vacantist position because we do not think that Church history and Catholic theology require that conclusion under the present circumstances.  "De Romano Pontifice" of
    St. Robert Bellarmine, a Doctor of the Church, and other authoritative works on the theology of the papacy give us adequate room to deal with the present situation, and ecclesiastical history provides a number of analogies for
    handling the present situation, which is not that unique in the history of the Church.


    Crystal clear? :wink:

    I also think Traditio is right in many things!

    Robert
    How Long O Lord... Habakuk 1:1



    Offline Irenaeus

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #5 on: July 30, 2009, 12:01:07 AM »
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  • Quote
    At our church there is someone who brings her unruly infants to Mass, and one of them even tries to sing (wail?) with the choir. I wonder what kind of charity that exhibits to our hard-working choir, which devotes much time to preparing elevating Catholic sacred music for the edification of our congregation. Sometimes we can't even follow the priest's sermon because of crying infants. Yet I travel hours to get to a Traditional Latin Mass and worship God in an atmosphere of reverent quiet and meditation. At this rate I might as well go back to the Novus Ordo service!


    If anything, she is committing a sin by letting her children distract the entire congregation.  Who can ever pray with those distractions at Mass?  When the kids act up, she needs to get off her lazy duff and take them outside.
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #6 on: July 30, 2009, 03:30:11 AM »
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  • Babies are part of the deal, noise and all, where normal life is concerned.  I often crack a large grin (which I try to conceal) when I hear a wee one making little noises.  Yes, there is a "limit" that ought to be observed, but the parent is often so used to the various noises of the infant that the line they draw is often different than the one that a single man, for instance, might draw.  So be it.

    I suppose if one had a particularly difficult child, it would not be a bad idea to recall that the obligation of a parent to assist at Mass is not as strict as some might think when an infant, who needs to be cared for, is involved.  Godspeed.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #7 on: July 30, 2009, 04:44:45 AM »
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  • As sgg.org/cult, whether man, woman, or child, if you leave to use the restroom right before or during the sermon, you may not reenter the church until the sermon is completed.  Those who have been there know what I mean if I mention the occasional "pulpit-tirades" about the noises of children, etc.
    + Vincit veritas +


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    « Reply #8 on: July 30, 2009, 04:47:29 AM »
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  • Sorry: The first word above should be "At", not "As".
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline clare

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #9 on: July 30, 2009, 08:52:24 AM »
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  • At the risk of sounding all evangelical Protestant, but it is a good question to ask in all kinds of situations:

    WWJD?

    Or, if you prefer:

    WWMD?

    Offline Matthew

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #10 on: July 30, 2009, 11:17:17 AM »
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  • Good point -- "suffer the little children to come unto me."

    It's good for children to not be able to remember their first time at Mass -- to feel like they've always gone there on Sunday -- so they can't conceive of a life otherwise.

    If you keep them home -- or put them in Church daycare -- until age 5 or 6, then they certainly will have a first impression of Mass, and it usually won't be a positive one. How can 1 hour of quiet compete with being at home, or playing with hundreds of toys in a play room?

    When a little child is actually CRYING though, they need to be taken out of the church/chapel itself.  

    And another point that needs to be brought up -- what age are we talking about? Children under 1 1/2 are one thing, but what if you have a misbehaved 4 year old? Shouldn't you establish some kind of rules, backed up by discipline?

    As soon as possible, children should be trained to behave in the main chapel (not the cry room, basement, or hallway).

    Matthew
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    Offline Irenaeus

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    Children at Mass
    « Reply #11 on: July 30, 2009, 01:14:19 PM »
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  • Quote
    . . . but the parent is often so used to the various noises of the infant that the line they draw is often different than the one that a single man, for instance, might draw.


    The parent must be more sensitive to the needs of others.  Don't just sit there and stare into space when the kids act up.  Do something.

    Quote
    At the risk of sounding all evangelical Protestant, but it is a good question to ask in all kinds of situations:

    WWJD?

    Or, if you prefer:

    WWMD?


    The better question is: WDJWUTD (What Does Jesus Want Us To Do)?

    He said: "My house shall be called the house of prayer."

    Often our Churches are anything but that.  They've been turned into nurseries and playrooms with children crying, talking, eating snacks, banging their toys, running in the narthex, etc . . .

    No one can pray.  No one can hear anything else.

    Is this the purpose of Mass?  To sit and listen to all that racket?

    Parents must be vigilant about keeping the distractions down, so other people can pray and meditate.

     
     In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin.  (Ecclesiasticus 7:40)

    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #12 on: July 30, 2009, 02:08:14 PM »
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  • This is one of those cases where "virtue lies in between the two extremes".

    One the one hand, you have parents who fail to discipline their toddlers, and let them talk, throw tantrums, play with toys, an in general make too much noise in church.

    These parents need to realize that God will hold them accountable if they fail to instill self-control and discipline in their children. Lack of discipline, if not corrected later (by the prison system, the military, hardships, etc.)  will certainly lead to Hell fire -- for the children and possibly the parents as well.

    On the other hand, you have bachelors -- not used to children or babies at all -- being overly strict about the matter. A baby cooing (not crying, but making cute noises) is not a big deal. These people fail to realize that the married life is very difficult, and married people need some spiritual consolation as well. We married people used to spend extra time praying in the chapel -- and now we don't get to because we have multiple little ones to care for. Some have had to give up going to Mass during the week. Try to have some compassion.

    And don't think that married people don't need spiritual consolation, and are "good to go" because we get to indulge our passions all the time. Anyone who thinks that has never been married, or at least has never had kids. No, we need God's grace as much as anyone to avoid getting frustrated, upset, angry, etc. when dealing with all the stresses of life. Life can be hectic sometimes.

    Just think when you hear a baby crying -- you only have to hear it for ONE LOUSY HOUR. Where do you think that baby goes after Mass is over?

    Matthew
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline clare

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    « Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 02:09:46 PM »
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  • Quote from: Irenaeus
    The parent must be more sensitive to the needs of others.  Don't just sit there and stare into space when the kids act up.  Do something.


    Others should be sensitive to parents. I wonder if there are any statistics which show the ratio of parents to non-parents who are irritated by children at Mass.

    Sometimes you have to weigh up whether doing something is actually going to be more of a distraction than not doing something.

    Offline clare

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    « Reply #14 on: July 30, 2009, 02:12:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd
    On the other hand, you have bachelors -- not used to children or babies at all -- being overly strict about the matter. A baby cooing (not crying, but making cute noises) is not a big deal. These people fail to realize that the married life is very difficult, and married people need some spiritual consolation as well. We married people used to spend extra time praying in the chapel -- and now we don't get to because we have multiple little ones to care for. Some have had to give up going to Mass during the week. Try to have some compassion.

    ...

    Just think when you hear a baby crying -- you only have to hear it for ONE LOUSY HOUR. Where do you think that baby goes after Mass is over?


    Well said, Matthew.

     

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