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Author Topic: causality and God's will  (Read 905 times)

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Offline spouse of Jesus

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causality and God's will
« on: March 07, 2010, 03:07:27 AM »
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  •   As we all know, God has made this world based on the principle of causality. So, for anything to happen, all necessary conditions must be met. And these nessary conditions, most of the time depend on human actions, environment and the nature.
      What will happen if God wills/wishes/promises something whose necesaary conditions are not met, either because the human party is not cooperating or some obstacle exists in the nature? Will He make a miracle?
      An example to clarify what I mean: Suppose God wills a 30 year old man to live to 70. For a man to live certain things are necessary. Then, if this man is put in a dark and empty room by his enemies where there is no food or water, will God let him die and abandon His original will to let this man live to 70?


    Offline Matthew

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    causality and God's will
    « Reply #1 on: March 07, 2010, 07:42:40 AM »
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  • It's hard to frustrate God's will in that way, because He actually knows what people will choose with their Free Will.

    So He would know that the enemies were going to put the man in a dark room on a given date.

    God is the only One with this level of knowledge.

    The angels and devils see things more clearly than humans; they are really good guessers. Because of their intelligence, they seem to know the future, when they are only extrapolating from symptoms they observe in the present.

    They would know our personality to an extreme degree, plus our past actions with perfect memory -- but that doesn't predict behavior. Free Will can still give them unexpected surprises.

    Of course, modern pagans believe that man doesn't have Free Will, so they believe that if only we understood ALL the inputs that went into a person's life, we'd be able to predict their behavior. But Catholics know this is false.

    Matthew
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    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    causality and God's will
    « Reply #2 on: April 02, 2010, 03:16:19 PM »
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  • well, if I pray to God for something and He wants to grant me my desire, but sees that it's necessary conditions are not met, what will happen?

    Offline MaterDominici

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    causality and God's will
    « Reply #3 on: April 03, 2010, 06:30:25 PM »
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  • Like praying to be cured from a disease which has no known cure?

    God, of course, could still grant your request. Miracles do happen.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Caraffa

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    causality and God's will
    « Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 06:41:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: spouse of Jesus
    well, if I pray to God for something and He wants to grant me my desire, but sees that it's necessary conditions are not met, what will happen?



    From Providence by Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P.
    Quote
    18. Providence And Prayer

    When we reflect on the infallibility of God's foreknowledge and the unchangeableness of the decrees of providence, not infrequently a difficulty occurs to the mind. If this infallible providence embraces in its universality every period of time and has foreseen all things, what can be the use of prayer? How is it possible for us to enlighten God by our petitions, to make Him alter His designs, who has said: "I am the Lord and I change not"? (Mal. 3: 6.) Must we conclude that prayer is of no avail, that it comes too late, that whether we pray or not, what is to be will be?

    On the contrary, the Gospel tells us: "Ask, and it shall be given you" (Matt. 7: 7). A commonplace with unbelievers and especially with the deists of the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, this objection in reality arises from an erroneous view as to the primary source of efficacy in prayer and the purpose for which it is intended. The solution of the objection will show the intimate connection between prayer and providence, since (1) it is founded upon providence, (2) it is a practical recognition of providence, and (3) it co-operates in the workings of providence.

    Providence, the primary cause of efficacy in prayer

    We sometimes speak as though prayer were a force having the primary cause of its efficacy in ourselves, seeking by way of persuasion to bend God's will to our own; and forthwith the mind is confronted with the difficulty just mentioned, that no one can enlighten God or prevail upon Him to alter His designs.

    As clearly shown by St. Augustine and St. Thomas (IIa IIae, q. 83, a. 2), the truth is that prayer is not a force having its primary source in ourselves; it is not an effort of the human soul to bring violence to bear upon God and compel Him to alter the dispositions of His providence. If we do occasionally make use of these expressions, it is by way of metaphor, just a human way of expressing ourselves. In reality, the will of God is absolutely unchangeable, as unchangeable as it is merciful; yet in this very unchangeableness the efficacy of prayer, rightly said, has its source, even as the source of a stream is to be found on the topmost heights of the mountains.

    In point of fact, before ever we ourselves decided to have recourse to prayer, it was willed by God. From all eternity God willed it to be one of the most fruitful factors in our spiritual life, a means of obtaining the graces necessary to reach the goal of our life's journey. To conceive of God as not foreseeing and intending from all eternity the prayers we address to Him in time is just as childish as the notion of a God subjecting His will to ours and so altering His designs.

    Prayer is not our invention. Those first members of our race, who, like Abel, addressed their supplications to Him, were inspired to do so by God Himself. It was He who caused it to spring from the hearts of patriarchs and prophets; it is He who continues to inspire it in souls that engage in prayer. He it is who through His Son bids us, "Ask, and it shall be given you: seek and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened unto you" (Matt. 7: 7).

    The answer to the objection we have mentioned is in the main quite simple in spite of the mystery of grace it involves. True prayer, prayer offered with the requisite conditions, is infallibly efficacious because God has decreed that it shall be so, and God cannot revoke what He has once decreed.

    It is not only what comes to pass that has been foreseen and intended (or at any rate permitted) by a providential decree, but the manner also in which it comes to pass, the causes that bring about the event, the means by which the end is attained.

    Providence, for instance, has determined from all eternity that there shall be no harvest without the sowing of seed, no family life without certain virtues, no social life without authority and obedience, no knowledge without mental effort, no interior life without prayer, no redemption without a Redeemer, no salvation without the application of His merits and, in the adult, a sincere desire to obtain that salvation.

    In every order, from the lowest to the highest, God has had in view the production of certain effects and has prepared the necessary causes; with certain ends in view He has prepared the means adequate to attain them. For the material harvest He has prepared a material seed, and for the spiritual harvest a spiritual seed, among which must be included prayer.

    Prayer, in the spiritual order, is as much a cause destined from all eternity by providence to produce a certain effect, the attainment of the gifts of God necessary for salvation, as heat and electricity in the physical order are causes that from all eternity are destined to produce the effects of our everyday experience.

    Hence, far from being opposed to the efficacy of prayer, the unchangeableness of God is the ultimate guaranty of that efficacy. But more than this, prayer must be the act by which we continually acknowledge that we are subject to the divine governance.

    Pray for me, always.


    Offline spouse of Jesus

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    causality and God's will
    « Reply #5 on: April 06, 2010, 06:55:39 PM »
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  •   Great post Thank you Caraffa!