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Author Topic: Regina Caeli  (Read 722 times)

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Offline Miseremini

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Regina Caeli
« on: March 30, 2024, 12:19:16 PM »
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  • Remember, today Holy Saturday at noon, we switch from the Angelus to the Regina Caeli until Trinity Sunday.  The Regina Caeli is prayed while standing.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #1 on: March 30, 2024, 01:43:43 PM »
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  • If you hold that Easter starts at noon on Holy Saturday.  I don't.  Our Lord rose in the third day, not on the second.  This was something that Pope Pius XII rightly fixed.


    Offline jersey60

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #2 on: March 30, 2024, 04:26:15 PM »
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  • Agree with Lad…i celebrated the vigil today but won’t start Regina Coeli till the morning 

    Offline Philip

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #3 on: March 30, 2024, 05:11:40 PM »
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  • I simply do what it says in my Breviary.  So I said Regina Caeli, for the first time, after Compline this evening and then after Mattins & Lauds.

    Now, here in London, UK, bed time and looking forward to a glorious Easter for all tomorrow!


    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #4 on: March 30, 2024, 05:55:52 PM »
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  • OK...This is what the Church states regarding the Regina coeli.

    From the1857 Raccolta  #75 Page 218
    "At Paschal-tide, that is from Holy Saturday at midday to midday on the Saturday preceeding the Feast of the Most Holy Trinity, inclusive, instead of the Angelus Domini the following is to be said, standing." 

    From the 1909 Raccolta, #182 Page 151
    "in Paschal-tide (i.e., from Holy Saturday at midday to midday on Saturday before Trinity Sunday inclusive), the Regina coeli, etc., is said instead, standing,"...

    From the 1957 Raccolta, #331 Page 232
    "The faithful  who at dawn, at noon and at eventide, or as soon thereafter as may be, devoutly recite the Angelus, or  at Eastertide the Regina coeli..."

    NOTE the 1857 Raccolta has indulgences attached to this devotion dating back to Pope John XXII., by a bull dated from Avignon, Oct 13, 1318.

    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #5 on: March 30, 2024, 06:01:50 PM »
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  • I agree with Ladislaus.
    It doesn't make sense to sing to Our Lady "rejoice" at the same time as we are praying the Dolor Rosary and keeping her company, compassionating her while Our Lord is in the tomb... these should be our sentiments on Holy Saturday.

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #6 on: March 30, 2024, 07:16:38 PM »
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  • Being devoted to Our Mother of Sorrows, I agree with the sentiment of sorrow on Holy Saturday... however... are we to disregard the instructions of the highest authorities of the Catholic Church led by the Holy Ghost?  What else will individuals change?
    So much for tradition.  Novus Ordo here we come.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline jersey60

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #7 on: March 30, 2024, 08:35:42 PM »
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  • Being devoted to Our Mother of Sorrows, I agree with the sentiment of sorrow on Holy Saturday... however... are we to disregard the instructions of the highest authorities of the Catholic Church led by the Holy Ghost?  What else will individuals change?
    So much for tradition.  Novus Ordo here we come.
    Agree, my pre-54 missal says to start it on Holy Saturday noon, makes no sense to me but won’t argue with Tradition 


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #8 on: March 30, 2024, 09:51:56 PM »
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  • Being devoted to Our Mother of Sorrows, I agree with the sentiment of sorrow on Holy Saturday... however... are we to disregard the instructions of the highest authorities of the Catholic Church led by the Holy Ghost?  What else will individuals change?
    So much for tradition.  Novus Ordo here we come.
    Miseremini, in saying this, do you hold that Pope Pius XII was not "the highest authority of the Catholic Church led by the Holy Ghost"? Does his reform merely amount to "what else will individuals change"?

    Dom Gueranger in The Liturgical Year tells us that it was the practice of the Church from the earliest ages refraining, through a holy fear, from renewing the Sacrifice on Her altars on this day when Our Lord's Body lay lifeless in the tomb. "Even the Greek Church, which never fasts on the Saturdays of Lent, follows the practice of the Latin Church for this Saturday: she not only fasts, but she even omits the celebration of the Mass of the Presanctified (on Holy Saturday)".

    Dom Gueranger continues" "Such was the discipline of the Latin Church for nearly a thousand years: but about the eleventh century, an important change began to be introduced with regard to the celebration of Mass on Holy Saturday. The Mass which, hitherto, had been celebrated during the night preceding Easter Sunday, then began to be anticipated on the Saturday... The relaxations that had been introduced with regard to fasting were the occasion of this change in the liturgy...

    "The Orientals have kept up the ancient tradition to this day...

    "As a result of this change, there is an apparent contradiction between the mystery of Holy Saturday and the Divine Service which is celebrated upon it: Christ is still in the tomb, and yet we are celebrating His Resurrection: the hours preceding Mass are mournful, and before midday the paschal joy will have filled our hearts. We will conform to the present order of the holy liturgy..."

    I am no liturgist. I am no theologian. My opinion is worthless. I follow Archbishop Lefebvre because I see in him the great leader that God gave us in these troubled times to preserve the Faith and Divine Worship. He said we should accept the Pope Pius XII reform because there is nothing against the Faith. That is enough for me. For sixty years it has kept us Traditional and not all Novus Ordo as you suggest. It is very dangerous to judge everything a Pope does and says by the character and intentions of those surrounding him who may have influenced him. We might ask who was the Pope and his counsellors who after one thousand years of tradition relaxed the Lenten fast and brought these already ancient ceremonies forward to Holy Saturday morning. Many today who advocate the pre-1955 Holy Week might have objected then that the Pope had no right to do such a thing. Yet it was accepted by the Church for the next thousand years...

    So when it comes to discerning when "the highest authority of the Catholic Church is led by the Holy Ghost", or when his changes are legitimate, I will follow Archbishop Lefebvre and no lesser authority until Rome returns to Tradition. It is definitely not a slippery slide to the Novus Ordo, that much is clear!




    Offline Dominique

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #9 on: March 31, 2024, 05:13:44 AM »
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  • Miseremini, in saying this, do you hold that Pope Pius XII was not "the highest authority of the Catholic Church led by the Holy Ghost"? Does his reform merely amount to "what else will individuals change"?

    Dom Gueranger in The Liturgical Year tells us that it was the practice of the Church from the earliest ages refraining, through a holy fear, from renewing the Sacrifice on Her altars on this day when Our Lord's Body lay lifeless in the tomb. "Even the Greek Church, which never fasts on the Saturdays of Lent, follows the practice of the Latin Church for this Saturday: she not only fasts, but she even omits the celebration of the Mass of the Presanctified (on Holy Saturday)".

    Dom Gueranger continues" "Such was the discipline of the Latin Church for nearly a thousand years: but about the eleventh century, an important change began to be introduced with regard to the celebration of Mass on Holy Saturday. The Mass which, hitherto, had been celebrated during the night preceding Easter Sunday, then began to be anticipated on the Saturday... The relaxations that had been introduced with regard to fasting were the occasion of this change in the liturgy...

    "The Orientals have kept up the ancient tradition to this day...

    "As a result of this change, there is an apparent contradiction between the mystery of Holy Saturday and the Divine Service which is celebrated upon it: Christ is still in the tomb, and yet we are celebrating His Resurrection: the hours preceding Mass are mournful, and before midday the paschal joy will have filled our hearts. We will conform to the present order of the holy liturgy..."

    I am no liturgist. I am no theologian. My opinion is worthless. I follow Archbishop Lefebvre because I see in him the great leader that God gave us in these troubled times to preserve the Faith and Divine Worship. He said we should accept the Pope Pius XII reform because there is nothing against the Faith. That is enough for me. For sixty years it has kept us Traditional and not all Novus Ordo as you suggest. It is very dangerous to judge everything a Pope does and says by the character and intentions of those surrounding him who may have influenced him. We might ask who was the Pope and his counsellors who after one thousand years of tradition relaxed the Lenten fast and brought these already ancient ceremonies forward to Holy Saturday morning. Many today who advocate the pre-1955 Holy Week might have objected then that the Pope had no right to do such a thing. Yet it was accepted by the Church for the next thousand years...

    So when it comes to discerning when "the highest authority of the Catholic Church is led by the Holy Ghost", or when his changes are legitimate, I will follow Archbishop Lefebvre and no lesser authority until Rome returns to Tradition. It is definitely not a slippery slide to the Novus Ordo, that much is clear!
    The pre-55 Holy Week liturgy dates back to Pope St Pius V, in 1570. Are we saying that the Church was in error all this time? It makes more sense to trust a saintly Pope such as St Pius V, whose decree Quo Primum guaranteed the use of this liturgy, rather than a new Holy Week reformed by Bugnini. The time of the ceremonies and the early relaxation of fasting are a minute detail in comparison with all the changes that were effected, least of all the change in the prayer for the JƐws.

    It has been well established that Archbishop Lefebvre himself, while advocating obedience to the reformed Holy Week and the 1962 missal, actually followed the pre-55 Holy Week liturgy and the pre-1962 mass liturgy. There was no hard and fast rule about it in the SSPX, there still isn't. I have seen a lot of people on YouTube commenting on how their SSPX parish priest used the pre-55 Holy Week this year. And half the Resistance priests are using it as well. 

    No one is in the wrong for wanting to follow the 1955 Holy Week, but no one is in the wrong either for wanting to follow the 1570 to 1955 Holy Week! But I believe that anyone who makes a federal case out of this issue is indeed in the wrong.

    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #10 on: March 31, 2024, 05:49:53 AM »
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  • The pre-55 Holy Week liturgy dates back to Pope St Pius V, in 1570. Are we saying that the Church was in error all this time? It makes more sense to trust a saintly Pope such as St Pius V, whose decree Quo Primum guaranteed the use of this liturgy, rather than a new Holy Week reformed by Bugnini. The time of the ceremonies and the early relaxation of fasting are a minute detail in comparison with all the changes that were effected, least of all the change in the prayer for the JƐws.

    It has been well established that Archbishop Lefebvre himself, while advocating obedience to the reformed Holy Week and the 1962 missal, actually followed the pre-55 Holy Week liturgy and the pre-1962 mass liturgy. There was no hard and fast rule about it in the SSPX, there still isn't. I have seen a lot of people on YouTube commenting on how their SSPX parish priest used the pre-55 Holy Week this year. And half the Resistance priests are using it as well.

    No one is in the wrong for wanting to follow the 1955 Holy Week, but no one is in the wrong either for wanting to follow the 1570 to 1955 Holy Week! But I believe that anyone who makes a federal case out of this issue is indeed in the wrong.
    Well said!  :incense:
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/


    Offline AMDGJMJ

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #11 on: March 31, 2024, 05:50:16 AM »
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  • Remember, today Holy Saturday at noon, we switch from the Angelus to the Regina Caeli until Trinity Sunday.  The Regina Caeli is prayed while standing.
    Thank you for the reminder!  🤗 
    "Jesus, Meek and Humble of Heart, make my heart like unto Thine!"

    http://whoshallfindavaliantwoman.blogspot.com/

    Offline Kephapaulos

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    Re: Regina Caeli
    « Reply #12 on: March 31, 2024, 11:42:30 AM »
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  • "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)