Author Topic: cant reach a conclusion (Read 1430 times)

spouse of Jesus · « **on:** August 14, 2010, 06:16:42 PM »

I have asked it before on FE, and if I have asked it here too, please forgive me. But I can't reach a conclusion:
For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary. (De fide.)
Actual Grace is not necessary for the performance of a morally good action. (Sent. certa.)
And what CM pointed out recently:
"Pope Pius St. V, Ex Omnibus 27: “Free will, without the help of God's grace, has power only for sin.” - CONDEMNED.

The only conclusion I reached is that we can do good without grace, but it will have no effect on our salvation. Also maybe we can avoid some sins (not ofcoarse all sins and not for a considerable amount of time) but still without any effect on our salvation.

Is it right?

Jamie · « **Reply #1 on:** August 14, 2010, 11:13:55 PM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

I have asked it before on FE, and if I have asked it here too, please forgive me. But I can't reach a conclusion:
For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary. (De fide.)
Actual Grace is not necessary for the performance of a morally good action. (Sent. certa.)
And what CM pointed out recently:
"Pope Pius St. V, Ex Omnibus 27: “Free will, without the help of God's grace, has power only for sin.” - CONDEMNED.

The only conclusion I reached is that we can do good without grace, but it will have no effect on our salvation. Also maybe we can avoid some sins (not ofcoarse all sins and not for a considerable amount of time) but still without any effect on our salvation.

Is it right?

Could the difference be between internal and external grace? This site seems to have a good explanation of how the two work:

http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Grace/Grace_004.htm

spouse of Jesus · « **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2010, 04:46:59 AM »

Thanks for the link.
I am afraid of having a heretical opinion. It is why I ask so many questions, to make sure that there is no error in my mind.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2010, 01:37:31 PM »

Have you ever read, or thought of reading, St. Thomas on the subject of grace? I only ask because you can access the Summa Theologiae online, perusing this work of a true master at your leisure.

Well, Godspeed to you, spouse :)

CM · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2010, 02:33:15 PM »

Quote from: spouse of Jesus

The only conclusion I reached is that we can do good without grace, but it will have no effect on our salvation. Also maybe we can avoid some sins (not ofcoarse all sins and not for a considerable amount of time) but still without any effect on our salvation.

Is it right?

Sounds like you've got it. Calvinists, of course, will disagree.