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Author Topic: Can someone in material heresy get indulgences?  (Read 342 times)

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Offline Cryptinox

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Can someone in material heresy get indulgences?
« on: November 13, 2020, 01:20:43 PM »
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    • Is material heresy venial sin? If so does this mean if one is in material heresy on an issue like BOD, invincible ignorance and the extent of it, NFP, etc. they could not get an indulgence? When Our Lord allegedly appeared to St. Thomas Aquinas He did not tell him to abjure his error on the Immaculate Conception or when life begins.
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    Offline DLaurentius

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    Re: Can someone in material heresy get indulgences?
    « Reply #1 on: November 13, 2020, 07:07:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cryptinox on November 13, 2020, 01:20:43 PM
    Is material heresy venial sin?
    Material heresy is not always a sin. It can be mortally sinful, venially sinful, and without sin depending on what kind of ignorance someone has.

    The following is an excerpt from Teologia Moral En Cuadros (AD 1862) and its English translation by Google:

    "Puesto que la obstinacion hace al hereje, no lo es el que por ignorancia sostiene un error contrario a la fe, sin querer persistir en el contra las decisiones de la Iglesia. Esta es la que se denomina herejia material; es sin pecado si la ignorancia es invencible; y culpable si la ignorancia es vencible, en diversos grados segun la culpabilidad de la ignorancia; mas no hace incurrir en las penas impuestas á los herejes, y todo confesor puede absolver de ella; mientras que la herejía formal queda reservada como se dirá mas adelante."

    "Since obstinacy makes the heretic, it is not the one who out of ignorance maintains an error contrary to the faith, without wanting to persist against the decisions of the Church. This is what is called material heresy; it is without sin if ignorance is invincible; and guilty if ignorance is beatable, in varying degrees according to the guilt of ignorance; but it does not cause the penalties imposed on heretics to be incurred, and every confessor can absolve from it; while the formal heresy is reserved as will be said later."
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    Offline donkath

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    Re: Can someone in material heresy get indulgences?
    « Reply #2 on: November 13, 2020, 07:32:39 PM »
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    St. Thomas Aquinas He did not tell him to abjure his error on the Immaculate Conception or when life begins.


    I thought it was St. Augustine that had objections.  Whoever it was there was no error in either case because the Immaculate Concetion had not become dogma.
    Once it was proclaimed the saint immediately accepted it.  Theologians debate, argue and suggest - but until the Church proclaims such and such there is no error or sin.
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    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline DLaurentius

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    Re: Can someone in material heresy get indulgences?
    « Reply #3 on: November 13, 2020, 08:33:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: Cryptinox on November 13, 2020, 01:20:43 PM
    If so does this mean if one is in material heresy on an issue like BOD, invincible ignorance and the extent of it, NFP, etc. they could not get an indulgence?

    If one were guilty of an unforgiven venial sin of material heresy and in the state of grace, he would only be able to obtain an indulgence for the sins that have already been forgiven, not the unforgiven sin of material heresy.

    The following is an excerpt from Handbook of Moral Theology (AD 1955) by Father Dominic M. Prummer, OP:

    Quote
    784. 2. A state of grace and perfect union with the Church are necessary for gaining indulgences.

    Consequently the following persons are debarred from indulgences :

    a) unbaptized or excommunicated persons ;

    b) those in the state of mortal sin. Even venial sin prevents the remission of all temporal punishment. In such cases the punishment due to those sins whose guilt has been forgiven is remitted, but not the punishment due to those venial sins not yet forgiven.
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    "Nam, etsi ambulavero in medio umbrae mortis, non timebo mala, quoniam tu mecuм es. Virga tua, et baculus tuus, ipsa me consolata sunt." - Psalmi 22:4

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Can someone in material heresy get indulgences?
    « Reply #4 on: November 14, 2020, 09:33:15 AM »
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    St. Thomas Aquinas He did not tell him to abjure his error on the Immaculate Conception or when life begins.

    St Thomas was not a material heretic.  He was theorizing on when the soul was infused into a babies' body.  His theory was that for the first 30 days, because of the high possibility of miscarriage, that the cells were not a human being.  And only after a period of a month or so, did God infuse the soul and a human being was created.  St Thomas wrote volumes of books on medicine, in addition to his famous theology book, the Summa, so his theory was a combination of his medical and theological knowledge.
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    This kind of theory was not material heresy because the Church and scientific fields did not know enough about conception to declare that life begins from the first moment.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Can someone in material heresy get indulgences?
    « Reply #5 on: November 14, 2020, 11:20:41 AM »
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    • For what it's worth....

    St. Thomas Aquinas 1225-1274

    Dogma on the Immaculate Conception, defined 1854 (Ineffabilis Deus)  


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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline donkath

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    Re: Can someone in material heresy get indulgences?
    « Reply #6 on: November 14, 2020, 07:30:00 PM »
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    • Thank you Stubborn.
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    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."
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