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Author Topic: Can a priest refrain from receiving the Eucharist at a Mass he celebrates?  (Read 2479 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Can a priest refrain from receiving the Eucharist at a Mass he celebrates?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2021, 08:11:15 PM »
Quote from: DustyActual on November 17, 2021, 07:33:10 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but at the moment of consecration two things happen; the sacrament is confected and the sacrifice is accomplished. I have heard that the double consecration represents the mystical immolation of the Victim.

Yes.

I think there might be some confusion in some of the posts above, because some people use the terms "Mass" (which is a rite) and "Communion" (which is a sacrament) interchangeably, when they ought not.

But when we speak of "validity," we are speaking only of the "sacrament," which is always valid so long as the essential form (i.e., words of consecration) is said.
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Can a priest refrain from receiving the Eucharist at a Mass he celebrates?
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2021, 09:14:25 PM »

Quote
But when we speak of "validity," we are speaking only of the "sacrament,"
Validity can also apply to the Mass, as a whole, in addition to the sacrament.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Can a priest refrain from receiving the Eucharist at a Mass he celebrates?
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2021, 09:31:34 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on November 17, 2021, 09:14:25 PM
Validity can also apply to the Mass, as a whole, in addition to the sacrament.

I agree with this.  There can be a valid consecration but an invalid Mass.  Invalid (invalidus from invalere in Latin) simply means that it fails to have its effect or power.  And the power of the Mass is not just in the Consecration but in the entire Sacrifice.

So, for example, a priest in a prison camp could surreptitiously consecrate some bread and wine (quickly in order to avoid detection) to receive Holy Communion, but there would be no Mass.  That isn't a Mass.  And except in grave circuмstances such as the aforementioned, it's gravely illicit to consecrate outside of Mass.

This is another reason that the Novus Ordo Mass is such a terrible thing ... it strips out the Offertory and many other mentions regarding the Sacrifice.
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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Can a priest refrain from receiving the Eucharist at a Mass he celebrates?
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2021, 09:44:11 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on November 17, 2021, 09:31:34 PM
This is another reason that the Novus Ordo Mass is such a terrible thing ... it strips out the Offertory and many other mentions regarding the Sacrifice.
This is the key point that people need to be focusing on. The Offertory. There were certainly valid consecrations of the Novus Ordo by traditionally-ordained priests, but, as you said, that in itself doesn't make a valid Mass when the whole ordeal isn't being offered to God the Father as a sacrifice.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Can a priest refrain from receiving the Eucharist at a Mass he celebrates?
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2021, 09:51:22 PM »
Disagree: 

A conversation regarding validity/invalidity is only intelligible with regard to a sacrament, not a rite.

If you say no, we speak of invalid rites all the time, I would respond yes, but always with regard to whether or not the sacrament is confected.

To drive the point home, consider how impertinent and conflationary it would be to attempt to discuss an “invalid confiteor, or Agnes Dei, or Sanctus, etc.”

Those things can be right or wrong, but valid/invalid??  In what sense?  

What does it mean to have an “invalid Sanctus?”
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