"half Novus Ordo" does seem strong, but what are we to understand when Trent said, "free from any error" and then they add something?

The original edition 1962 missal (i.e. the one approved by Pius XII) does NOT have St Joseph in the canon.  This was added later.  The point being, that the ORIGINAL 1962 missal is 100% consistent with Trent.

I've talked to a bookseller from the FSSP (they didn't know why I was inquiring).  You can buy the original edition missal.  They will include a sticker with the "updated canon" which you can place over the original canon.

Seems that the reason people debate over the 62 missal is because there are multiple versions and this causes the confusion.

So if there are really no differences of any note between the 62 and what came before, why did they even make a 62 in the first place.?

The main point of issuing a new missal is the change to the Church calendar -- adding feasts, adding saints, changing feast day classes, etc.  Typically, new missals are put out every 40-50 years, to include new canonizations, etc.

In the case of the ORIGINAL 1962 missal, the above calendar was updated (a lot).  But this all came from Pius XII and the changes were "in the works" long before he died.

Also, the 'Holy Week' changes were added...and, yes, these were not good (but also not heretical)...and did not affect the Mass.

Simple point - something must have changed (say the red do the black - conditioning, gearing up for "active participation", etc.) - I believe Bryne's book addresses all these changes. None of them are substantial (I am convinced), but it was the next small step towards the N.O.

Once the 1962 missal was introduced, then a plethora of "revised editions" came out, (sometimes multiple per year) until 1965, when a new missal was introduced.  Then many, many revisions of 65 missal were introduced, until the 'new mass' missal of 1969.  And the number (and degree) of changes varied, depending on the country and continent. 

(It's been said many times in the past, from posters on this site who lived there, that Ireland had very few, minor modernizations in the missal.  Even the 'new mass' was not very modern and quite 'conservative' compared to the craziness in the US or Mexico.  Also, some parts of Italy were relatively free of the blasphemy we saw in the US.  This is confirmed anecdotally even in the US...some dioceses were not as bad as others.)

So, yes, from the post-original-edition of 1962 until 1969...there were many, many 'small steps' towards/in preparation of the new mass.  But the original 1962 missal (aside from Holy Week and the calendar) is virtually identical to prior missals.

So, there is a 1912-1922 version of the missal?

Go look it up.  It's not a secret.  I don't have all the missal years memorized.

You’re the only person who has complained about this in the many years I’ve been on this site.  If you read the full thread, you will see who I responded to.  

Not sure.  Looks very similar to the info in Traditio's site.

As mentioned, where I would improve it vs. Traditio is, 1) add Eastern Rite options, 2) more up to date schedule information (based on contributors from individual chapels), 3) search capabilities, with filters, sorting by distance and/or Mass times on specific days(s), including/exclusing specific Masses, including those which could in theory be offered by priests with certain characteristics (i.e. I don't want NO priests not conditionally ordained).

It wouldn't be too difficult to write a web application to do all this ... but the key would be the data, acquiring it and keeping it up to date.

The TRADITIO directory is basically a PDF file, with no search capability, aside from looking for specific words using any browser's (or PDF reader) "find" function, and you can do that with any PDF file.

Many good, serious Trad clerics (who see issues with the modern police state -- see COVID 2020) like to keep a low profile. Not just Bp. Z, but also Bishop Trinh. And I bet there are many others. And they really have a point. The government is *not* our friend, and they proved that for the world to see, just 4 years ago. How quickly everyone forgets.

My point: eliminating GOOD lifeboat chapels (who want to keep a low profile, stay "underground" or under the radar) would make the directory much less useful. I don't want or care to visit some Indult location. If I were seeking Masses away from home, I would want to get in touch with priests and bishops like Bp. Z and Bp. Trinh. If I can't do so, then I can't do so.

That makes sennse.  There are others, however, that do not wish to keep it secret, and I think the target audience would be Traditional Catholics who are traveling but then want to find a Mass.  I've been there myself, where I'd pull out the Traditio guide, but the problems I had were precisely what got me thinking about the new site ...

1) Often I was near state borders, where I could have gone in one of 2-3 states, so then the way it's organized, by state, I had to look in each state, and then I had no idea how far some of the cities in some of these states were.  Basically I ended up plugging every one into Google Maps.  "Ooops.  That's on the far end of the state I'm near, 400 miles away." etc.

2) There were one or two times I showed up and there was no Mass at the time listed (doors were locked) ... and I had no idea why, except most likely the info was outdated.

3) Traditio didn't list Eastern Rite options, which for some of us are viable alternatives (though Maronite generally isn't for me unless I know of a priest being conservative up front)

4) Not knowing who the priests are (conditionally ordained or not?)

So those are the types of real-world struggles that fed into my thinking.  But, yes, you're right ... some chapels want to stay below the radar.  I definitely believe that the Plandemic 1.0 lockdown was just a dress rehearsal, and that the next one will be Draconian.  If people think they didn't have access to the Sacraments, to churches, etc. during the first one, Plandemic 2.0 will probably make it nearly impossible.

I think it might be a good idea for some of the bishops to create secret/underground priests ... along the lines of what I'm sure that Bishop Slupski had in mind, as he lived under Communism and probably has a good idea of what our future holds.

Apparently, others have taken notice of your odd behavior in this regard as well. IF one person harps - it could be construed as "nagging" but if multiple people dislike the behavior its not them but rather you that is the problem.

Take me for example, I am one of the most obnoxious and reviled people on this forum, I deserve to be hounded and nagged incessantly - I am totally fine with that. But pointing out your little quirk about not quoting people correctly as garnered me more thumbs up than I get in a month! Just reflect on that...

So why do you do it? And then why did you lie about no one bringing it up before? Or did you just forget?

Pax just considers us all bots, so he doesn't have to remember who is who.  He is just here to have logical debates with none of that personal garbage.  

I asked him awhile ago.

Quote from: Pax Vobis on July 17, 2024, 09:49:42 AM

Quote

So you think you can judge another person guilty of sin?  As a layman? 

You have no common sense.

Pax, why do your posts no longer show the name of who you are quoting?  Maybe in the future you could add the name?