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Author Topic: Bishop Donald Sanborn  (Read 7578 times)

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Offline 2Vermont

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Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2017, 05:41:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 04:07:20 PM
    VERY common.
    EKGs are worthless unless you are in the throws of a heart attack at the very moment and not one second later.
    God bless b. Sanborn
    If they are so worthless/unreliable, then why are they used at all?
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #46 on: November 19, 2017, 05:54:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on November 19, 2017, 05:41:53 PM
    If they are so worthless/unreliable, then why are they used at all?
    Money, money, money...
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #47 on: November 19, 2017, 05:55:57 PM »
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    • Quote from: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 05:54:41 PM
    Money, money, money...
    How are you so knowledgeable about the unreliability of EKG's?  Are you a doctor?
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #48 on: November 19, 2017, 05:57:47 PM »
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    • Quote from: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 04:05:31 PM
    I was taught that not believing even the tiniest bit of Catholicism makes a person not a practicing catholic.

    Well, I'm afraid that you were taught wrong.  In order to be excluded from membership in the Church, you have to pertinaciously hold heresy.  Beneath heresy there are lower degrees of error which do not exclude from the Church, and there are also even disputed and hotly-debated questions.

    PS -- Father Feeney was excommunicated because he refused to go to Rome and not because of his position.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #49 on: November 19, 2017, 06:00:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 05:54:41 PM
    Money, money, money...

    Yeah, there are a lot of practices in modern medicine that are done just because they don't know what else to do and/or because they generate revenue.  If you suspect a heart problem, the knee-jerk initial test is the EKG.  Now, the EKG could detect something other than heart attack ... such as irregular heartbeats, etc. ... and they are used to determine whether a heart attack is still in progress (when someone comes in with chest pains).
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    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #50 on: November 19, 2017, 07:59:22 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 19, 2017, 05:57:47 PM
    PS -- Father Feeney was excommunicated because he refused to go to Rome and not because of his position.
    Suprema Haec Sacra never specified exactly what Fr Feeney was being excommunicated for but it did make note of his disobedience both of the Holy Office and his superiors as well as the archbishop.  But it certainly did not accuse Fr Feeney or anyone else of heresy.  So at least we know that much. Fr Feeney was most certainly not a heretic.  I’m not sure if excommunication is a just penalty for disobedience especially in the case where it was not habitual but in any case even sede vacantists should agree that his reconciliation with the Church was legitimate since it was accomplished by Cardinal Wright who was one of those directly responsible for imposing the penalty and that would qualify for supplied jurisdiction (common error).  So there really can be no doubt about him dying as a member of the Church regardless of whether you agree with his position or not.
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    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #51 on: November 19, 2017, 09:04:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 19, 2017, 06:00:53 PM
    Yeah, there are a lot of practices in modern medicine that are done just because they don't know what else to do and/or because they generate revenue.  If you suspect a heart problem, the knee-jerk initial test is the EKG.  Now, the EKG could detect something other than heart attack ... such as irregular heartbeats, etc. ... and they are used to determine whether a heart attack is still in progress (when someone comes in with chest pains).
    If your EKG shows an irregular heartbeat, you had better be on your way to the operating room.  Most irregular heartbeats are found when someone wears a heart monitor, not in an EKG.
    An EKG shows IF you have had a heart attack sometime in your life.  Can't tell you when, unless you are in the throws of a heart attack when the EKG is being done, and this seldom happens because by the time you get to the ER the heart attack is over.
    Ekgs are almost totally worthless.  B. Sanborn should have had an angiogram, esp after the second time he went to the ER for the same complaint.   
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    Offline Fanny

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #52 on: November 19, 2017, 09:08:11 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on November 19, 2017, 05:57:47 PM
    Well, I'm afraid that you were taught wrong.  In order to be excluded from membership in the Church, you have to pertinaciously hold heresy.  Beneath heresy there are lower degrees of error which do not exclude from the Church, and there are also even disputed and hotly-debated questions.

    PS -- Father Feeney was excommunicated because he refused to go to Rome and not because of his position.
    I am not a canon lawyer.

    Being a traditional catholic means you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.  You can't pick and  choose this and that from before and after VAT II and make up your own religion.
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    Offline Lighthouse

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #53 on: November 19, 2017, 11:43:25 PM »
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    • Seems like I just read something in the past couple of weeks saying stents are now taking some criticism, and shouldn't be done..  I'll try to find the article.
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #54 on: November 20, 2017, 05:44:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lighthouse on November 19, 2017, 11:43:25 PM
    Seems like I just read something in the past couple of weeks saying stents are now taking some criticism, and shouldn't be done..  I'll try to find the article.
    There have been some commercials on television from a lawyer who says that a certain brand of stints that have now been discontinued have been failing and causing more damage and even death.  They are telling people who had surgery during a specific period of time to call them to see if they have a case against the stint manufacturer.  I've not seen any suggestion that stints in general are bad since they clearly have kept people alive who would otherwise have died earlier.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #55 on: November 20, 2017, 06:10:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: GJC on November 20, 2017, 06:04:27 AM
    Thanks for clarification on the lawyer deal.

    I guess calling oneself "traditional" is supposed to let the world know they disagree with the Vatican II? I get the moniker, but don't subscribe to it. We are either Catholic or we aren't.

    Unfortunately for the majority this "line in the sand" relates to the mass and not the faith. It doesn't matter if one goes to a Latin mass and avoids the Novus Ordo if they support and proclaim the same doctrine of the Novus Ordo. This is the case with +Sanborn, and he admitted if it were not for the new mass and some disciplinary changes he would sign up at his local diocese. See the Dr. Fastiggi debate for proof.

    Do you see the problem here? It is not about the faith once held. It is about the mass once held while excepting the new religion. Quite the deception.
    I strongly doubt that this is what he said given all of the Bishop Sanborn sermons and conferences I have listened to over the last few years.  I suspect the Fastiggi debate is very long.  Therefore, I think you should be the one to dig up the the actual quote and context since you are the one asserting what appears to be a false claim.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #56 on: November 20, 2017, 07:23:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: GJC on November 20, 2017, 07:18:16 AM
    I will do my best to find it, my intention is not to assert a false claim. I do agree he does have great sermons, but that does not discount the fact that he proclaims the new religion, i.e. salvation outside of the Catholic Church, invincible ignorance, implicit faith. It would be one thing if he spoke about conversion outside of the Catholic Church, but that is not the case here. The debate proves this 100%. In addition, I have spoke on many occasions with him.

    Think about the Arian crisis, do you think there were Clergy then that had great sermons? How about looking the part? Were they ascetic and live in monasteries? Burn incense?  But God for some reason blinded these men that claimed to be Catholic.

    Everything is irrelevant if the faith that has been handed down is not being preached.
    I am not interested in taking part in the BOD debate.  I stopped taking part in those years ago.
    I am only taking issue with your assertion that Bishop Sanborn's only issues with the Novus Ordo is the mass and a few disciplinary laws.  And that if those things were fixed, he would join up at his nearest Novus Ordo parish.  That is not true.  Period.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #57 on: November 20, 2017, 08:06:55 AM »
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    • Quote from: GJC on November 20, 2017, 08:05:21 AM
    Lol, what is he doing in Brooksville then?

    I agree BoD (modern teaching) is a redundant topic now, in so far as there are those who support it and those who don't. There doesn't appear to be any changing of the mind in either camp.
    Huh?
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #58 on: November 20, 2017, 08:07:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: Fanny on November 19, 2017, 09:08:11 PM
    Being a traditional catholic means you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere.  You can't pick and  choose this and that from before and after VAT II and make up your own religion.

    So, where do you draw the line?  On a bright sunny afternoon in Rome on September 7th, 1963, at 2:53 PM?  Problem is that Vatican II didn't happen in a vacuum.  We didn't one day have a Traditional Catholic Church and magically wake up the next day with total apostasy.  For decades and even centuries before Vatican II, the theological groundwork was being prepared.  Why is it that the vast majority of the world's bishops had NO PROBLEM with the teachings of Vatican II?  It's because they believed (and taught) the stuff in Vatican II long before the Council actually happened.

    But it's patently false what you wrote that not accepting the "tiniest bit of Catholicism" makes someone a non-Catholic.
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    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #59 on: November 20, 2017, 08:38:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: GJC on November 20, 2017, 06:04:27 AM
    Unfortunately for the majority this "line in the sand" relates to the mass and not the faith. It doesn't matter if one goes to a Latin mass and avoids the Novus Ordo if they support and proclaim the same doctrine of the Novus Ordo. This is the case with +Sanborn, and he admitted if it were not for the new mass and some disciplinary changes he would sign up at his local diocese. See the Dr. Fastiggi debate for proof.

    Do you see the problem here? It is not about the faith once held. It is about the mass once held while excepting the new religion. Quite the deception.
    That is exactly where the line should be drawn. A new pseudo-sacramental system was put into place and that is what defines the Conciliar sect.  Were pre-V2 Catholics actually not Catholic?  How would you define the Church without running afoul of defined dogmas yourself.  The Church is visible.  Those individuals who are baptized and are not manifest heretics and/or excommunicated are members of the Church.  Post-V2 Catholics can’t be held to a higher standard than pre-V2 Catholics.  So the line in the sand actually is the sacraments.  If there were any traditional Catholic clergy that claimed jurisdiction then the situation would be dramatically different and there would be the possibility of disciplinary action against doctrinal errors.
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