Author Topic: Bishop Donald Sanborn  (Read 3298 times)

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Offline JPaul

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Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2017, 04:49:34 PM »
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  • Can you name any cleric or bishop whom you believe isn't "another Apostle of salvation by ignorance?"
    Father James Francis Wathen RIP
    Perhaps one other who is in Louisville KY.
    Very hard to find today.

    Offline Recusant Sede

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #31 on: November 07, 2017, 05:10:25 PM »
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  • Invincible ignorance never saved anyone, however one is not guilty of the sin of not joining the Church if that person was invisibly ignorant of Her existence. For how could one be guilty of a sin he didn’t realize he committed? That does not mean that the person is saved because he was invincibly ignorant of the Church.


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #32 on: November 07, 2017, 07:01:14 PM »
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  • If you pick it up at the 2:24 mark and listen through 3:40 or so, the modernism is quite evident as defined by St. Pius X.

    Yeah, I called him out for this the day after the video came out.  He says that there's no salvation outside the Church.  But then those outside the Church ("through no fault of their own") can be saved.  To say that those outside the Church can be saved, is nothing short of an objectively heretical denial of EENS.  Come on now, at least say that these people are inside the Church ... even if they don't know it ... like Karl "Anonymous Christian" Rahner does, or that they're formally within the Church even while materially separated from it.

    But if people outside the Church can be saved, due to the EENS formula, they must be considered inside the Church.  That's V2 subsistence ecclesiology in a nutshell ... a church that consists of both Catholics and non-Catholics.

    And Fastiggi destroyed him because of this ridiculous "distinction".

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #33 on: November 07, 2017, 07:07:08 PM »
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  • Invincible ignorance never saved anyone ...

    Then why do you guys keep talking about it?

    No actual sin of infidelity is committed if one is invincibly ignorant -- as per St. Thomas and Pius IX (the latter being commonly distorted by BoDers as having taught Pelagianism) and basic common sense.  Nevertheless, there's the small matter of Original Sin.  So invincible ignorance is completely moot ... except in the following context.  St. Thomas teaches and so does Pius IX that if someone is invincibly ignorant and places no obstacles in the way of salvation, God will give him the grace to enter the Church.  But many BoDers claim that Pius IX taught that the person would be saved IN that state, outside the Church, before being enlightened with supernatural faith.  That's heretical and it's Pelagianism.  And Pius IX taught no such thing.

    Offline reconquest

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #34 on: November 07, 2017, 08:19:40 PM »
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  • Indeed, the Dictionnaire de Théologie Catholique article on "salvation of infidels" completely demolishes the idea that Pius IX taught salvation by invincible ignorance.
    "There's a mix of passion and shortsightedness in me, even when I'm positive that I'm doing my very best to see things for what they are, that warns me that I'll never know for sure. Undoubtedly I must follow the truth I can see, I have no choice and I must live on; but that is for me only, not to impose on others." - Fr. Leonardo Castellani


    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #35 on: November 07, 2017, 10:20:20 PM »
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  • Quote
    St. Thomas teaches and so does Pius IX that if someone is invincibly ignorant and places no obstacles in the way of salvation, God will give him the grace to enter the Church.
    This is the key.  As the famous saying goes "Grace builds on nature".  If a man has good nature (i.e. keeps the natural law and 10 commandments) then God will give him the grace to see the whole Truth and enter the Church.  If a man does NOT keep the 10 commandments, he will be damned for this, and his invincible ignorance of the Church is irrelevant.

    The modernists want us to believe that there is a saintly pagan out there who keeps the 10 commandments yet God keeps him in ignorance of the Church and then he dies.  "Oh, what will happen to that poor, saintly pagan who loved God with all his heart but didn't know of the church?"  Stupid situation that God would never let happen.  It's also never been proven to have happened, so again, irrelevant.

    Offline monka966

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #36 on: November 17, 2017, 10:34:57 AM »
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  • It appears that Bp. Sanborn indeed has had at least one heart attack recently?

    Fr. Jenkins mentions it at the 5 min 15 sec mark in the following video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=316&v=LA3a2lkeWbM


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #37 on: November 17, 2017, 10:45:16 AM »
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  • Bishop Sanborn, himself, says that he did not have a heart attack though his health issues have been as serious as if he had had a heart attack.  He explains his health issues, what has been done medically to correct those issues, and discusses the future of his organization in his latest newsletter:

    November Newsletter


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #38 on: November 17, 2017, 10:59:54 AM »
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  • Interesting.  Not sure when the show aired but it was just published to Youtube today.

    So Father Jenkins says that Bishop Sanborn had a couple of heart attacks recently.  I'm guessing that his information is likely very good.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #39 on: November 17, 2017, 11:09:14 AM »
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  • Bishop Sanborn, himself, says that he did not have a heart attack though his health issues have been as serious as if he had had a heart attack.  He explains his health issues, what has been done medically to correct those issues, and discusses the future of his organization in his latest newsletter:

    November Newsletter

    Says they found 98% blockage in a main artery coming from the heart, so IMO it's likely that he did have a couple of minor heart attacks ... despite the fact that subsequent EKGs showed normal.

    Offline monka966

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #40 on: November 17, 2017, 11:15:26 AM »
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  • I think it more than the virtigo that bothers the dear Bishop.

    Bp. Sanborn will consecrate Fr. Selway a bishop in spring of 2018. Why the sudden rush to consecrate if Bp. Sanborn is already associated with Bp. Dolan and the CMRI?

    http://mostholytrinityseminary.org/Nov_2017_Newsletter.pdf


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #41 on: November 17, 2017, 11:25:49 AM »
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  • I think it more than the virtigo that bothers the dear Bishop.

    Bp. Sanborn will consecrate Fr. Selway a bishop in spring of 2018. Why the sudden rush to consecrate if Bp. Sanborn is already associated with Bp. Dolan and the CMRI?

    I agree that Bishop Sanborn is concerned and believes he is much near to death than he was.  But I don't believe he is making a "sudden rush" to consecrate a successor.  Fr. Selway has long been considered the obvious successor and has probably been preparing for this eventual action for some time.  Just because a bishop is associated with other bishops doesn't mean that he should not prepare for his succession.  Even in normal times, we wouldn't wonder why a particular diocesan bishop may have an auxiliary bishop since he's obviously associated with bishops of other dioceses.

    Offline monka966

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #42 on: November 17, 2017, 11:27:49 AM »
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  • Out of curiosity, is Fr. Joseph Selway related to Fr. Benjamin Selway (CSPV)?

    Offline cath4ever

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #43 on: November 17, 2017, 11:48:34 AM »
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  • I think it more than the virtigo that bothers the dear Bishop.

    Bp. Sanborn will consecrate Fr. Selway a bishop in spring of 2018. Why the sudden rush to consecrate if Bp. Sanborn is already associated with Bp. Dolan and the CMRI?

    http://mostholytrinityseminary.org/Nov_2017_Newsletter.pdf


    Bishop Dolan and Bishop Sanborn, while quite closely associated to the point that Bishop Dolan sends his seminarians to Bishop Sanborn’s seminary, are still not in the same organization, nor do they agree on the topic of Sedevacantism.

    Bishop Dolan is an absolute Sedevacantist, believing that Jorge Bergoglio has no more claim to the papacy than anyone else.

    Bishop Sanborn is a material/formal Sedevacantist, believing that Jorge Bergoglio, while not having Papal authority, is the lawfully designated claimant to it, and would receive Papal authority were he to abjure his errors and accept the Catholic Faith.

    Naturally, Bishop Sanborn would want to have a Bishop who espouses his particular view on the subject. Further, being the rector of the Seminary, Bishop Sanborn might think it’s advantageous to have a Bishop at the Seminary as he is, whereas Bishop Dolan is more in a pastoral role at Saint Gertrude’s in Ohio. Not to mention, just this year Bishop Sanborn founded the Roman Catholic Institute, of which I assume he is the head, and so if he is having health problems he might want a Bishop rather than a simple Priest to succeed him in that too.
    However, I imagine that Bishop Dolan would serve as a co-consecrator (though I’m not certain of this), along with possibly Bishop Robert Neville of Michigan or the Bishop of the Istituto Mater Boni Consilii in Europe.


    As far as I know, Bishop Sanborn and his priests have zero contact with the CMRI. Bishop Dolan has limited contact with them.



    Offline cath4ever

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    Re: Bishop Donald Sanborn
    « Reply #44 on: November 17, 2017, 11:49:01 AM »
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  • Out of curiosity, is Fr. Joseph Selway related to Fr. Benjamin Selway (CSPV)?
    I think they're cousins.

     

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