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Author Topic: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish  (Read 1722 times)

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Offline caeli34

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Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
« on: March 24, 2023, 03:34:39 PM »
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  • I am a revert who found and fell in love with the SSPX.  My husband is a TLM-er but less concerned about where he attends.  We just moved from a large city with a SSPX priory to a very rural setting.  We have a 3 year old and 18 month old who were baptized at an SSPX chapel.  We have one on the way.  The closest SSPX chapel is 1.5 hours away and it is a mission chapel that has mass once a month in the early evening.  Between the drive time, mass time, and the age of my kids….we don’t make it there.  We have a larger chapel 2.5 hours away but I’m worried if we join there we won’t attend there often and it will be harder for my kids to be involved with altar serving, sacrament prep, etc.  So, we have been going to a local diocesan TLM.  The diocese is hostile to TLM and I believe this church won’t be allowed to continue with the TLM much longer.  We have not joined this parish either.  

    I want the new baby to be baptized by the SSPX preferably.  Do we join the mission 1.5 hours away, only to never attend but maybe support financially, and hopefully have the priest there perform the baptism?  We plan on being part of the mission chapel once our kids are slightly older and can handle the drive/time.  

    Or do we join the local diocese church where we have been attending and have the baptism there and then just switch once our kids are older and we are ready to do so?  At least we are known at this church and by the priest.  

    Just looking for thoughts if any one else has been in this situation.  Thank you!



    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #1 on: March 24, 2023, 05:57:24 PM »
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  • In the short term, I would get the sacraments from the sspx chapel, not the diocese.  In the long term, I would move closer to a Trad chapel (not diocese).  Moving to a rural setting, you've created your own problems.  You have an obligation to attend Sunday Mass, every week.  Your living situation should prioritize church over other considerations.


    Offline HeavyHanded

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #2 on: March 24, 2023, 06:14:36 PM »
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  • How is it you moved but didn’t have this figured out? I have been thinking of relocating my family, and my #1 consideration is proximity to the Mass. there is a family that visits our parish sometimes, they recently moved from out of state and it’s a 2.5 hour drive. 2 young kids and a newborn. So it could be worse

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #3 on: March 24, 2023, 06:24:05 PM »
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  • At least get the Baptism done at the SSPX mission chapel. You don't want to take any chance that the local will do it right.

    Do they have the right intention?

    Will they do the exorcisms using the old form?

    Are the holy oils properly consecrated? (Or the minister himself)

    Was the minister ordained specifically as an exorcist in the seminary?

    Do you want the Godparents to see how determined you are to provide the best available, and that they should do the same if it falls to them?

    I would rather stay home than go to any diocese function for these and many other reasons. I have to think twice about the SSPX too for that matter.

    Whether you go to the TLM at first until the kids grow, don't skip a chance to start the child off with the essential foundation. That way what ever Mass you go to, you'll all be best disposed to benefit from it.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #4 on: March 24, 2023, 06:54:01 PM »
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  • For your kids' sake, avoid the Motarian chapel due to the reasons Shrew Operator implied with her rhetorical questions ... except that ...

    Of course, these days you'd have to check on the ordination of the SSPX priests assigned to those chapels also, as some of them could have been ordained NOM and not conditonally ordained.  You might also be fortunate enough to have an (undoubtedly elderly) pre-V2 ordained priest at the Motarian chapel, although there the holy oils may not be legit (although not essential for Baptism).

    Given the answers to these, I'd look at possibly assisting at the 1.5-hour chapel once a month, at the 2.5-hour chapel once a month ... and then ... is there an Eastern Rite option close by (other than Maronite).  Try to get a list of pre-V2 ordained priests closer to you at least for the Sacrament of Confession more regularly (most of them are likely retired by now, but there are a few still active out there).

    In the meantime, before the children get to the age where they need more than just the Sacrament of Baptism, I'd consider moving back closer to a Traditonal chapel.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #5 on: March 24, 2023, 07:35:04 PM »
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  • www.Traditio.com

    Has a great listing of nationwide latin masses, with "type" (i.e. sspx, sspv, diocesan).  It is updated monthly. 

    I will pray for you and your situation.  God bless you.

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #6 on: March 24, 2023, 07:37:32 PM »
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  • FYI

    I identify as male because I am.

    Offline caeli34

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #7 on: March 26, 2023, 09:43:27 AM »
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  • I guess upon further retrospection this boils down more to the issue that my husband does not care or does not see the difference between diocesan and SSPX.  It’s all TLM to him.  I want to support the SSPX.  When I discuss with him he says I’m just being a loyalist.  And that’s not what it is for me.  I’ve always found truth and peace at SSPX chapels and my “loyalty” to them was confirmed during COVID when they were the only ones still saying mass.  It should be apparent to him too since the diocese is trying to do away with the diocese TLM he likes there anyways.  

    He’s a good dad and husband.  I’m not saying otherwise.  Had I had the faith I do today back when I met him, perhaps I would have looked for someone with similar thoughts.  But I’m faithful to the sacrament.  Also, our move was out of necessity and he did what he had to do for the welfare of our family.  Yes, it’s harder to get to TLM but not impossible and we knew that when we moved.  I do not doubt in the least he followed Gods will with the move.  I’m grateful for him for that.  

    I guess besides praying for him, I don’t have a lot of other options.  We discussed it this morning and it resulted in words.  I’m just going to go to the mission on my own with the kids and do what I can to the best of my ability.  Maybe the priest can meet with me and advise.  He also doesn’t contribute to the church so I’m not sure how we’ll ever be seen as members.  

    Appreciate the prayers for my family.  I worry for my boys.  


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #8 on: March 26, 2023, 11:08:52 AM »
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  • Have your husband read the issues with the new rites of consecration/ordination.  Also have him read +Ottaviani's report on the new mass.  All TLM's are not the same. 

    New rite "priests" are doubtfully valid and they say the new mass (or publicly condone it).  This is a moral issue.  He needs to educate himself.  If not, he'll be held accountable.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #9 on: March 26, 2023, 11:29:00 AM »
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  • Or do we join the local diocese church where we have been attending and have the baptism there and then just switch once our kids are older and we are ready to do so?  At least we are known at this church and by the priest.

    I would be curious to know to what extent this mindset now pervades SSPXers.

    I suppose it was inevitable, once the SSPX embarked upon a course of dissolving itself into conservative conciliarism (i.e., the differences between a diocesan indult and SSPX Mass are much diminished compared to 10-15 years ago, such that the contrasts between the two are no longer as pronounced as they once were, which naturally leads the faithful to perform calculus' like this):

    The sermons will be more or less the same; there will never be criticism of Rome; if the crisis in the Church should rarely arise, it will never be discussed in detail; same position on covid and vax's generally; faithful never discussing doctrine at social gatherings; etc.

    As Dom Laurenco Fleichman once observed about the trads coming to Campos in the wake of their practical accord, "I think that the following affirmations are undeniable: The new people that will join you will not desire to convert to true Tradition. They will come to you because the legal obstacles have been removed, and not for reasons of faith. They will be very sympathetic, but they will not be seeking the whole truth with the doctrinal conviction that leads souls to martyrdom..."
    https://www.sspxasia.com/Docuмents/Society_of_Saint_Pius_X/Open_Letter_to_the_Priests_of_Campos.htm
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #10 on: March 26, 2023, 11:56:02 AM »
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  • I've noticed that "social media trads" have this mindset.  They prefer Latin Mass because it's ancient and beautiful and pleasing to God but they do not know that they hold modernists beliefs.  Any attempt to fraternally correct them is met with accusations of being intolerant and judgmental.  

    It's akin to the "trad wife" movement covered in another thread.  They want to give the appearance of being a traditional Catholic because it fits their sensibilities and garners a lot of attention online.  

    I suspect soon this issue will be moot because SSPX will be the diocese.  And I look forward to it because it will be good to see the truth out in the open.  Catholics of good will may be less confused.


    Offline caeli34

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #11 on: March 26, 2023, 12:24:05 PM »
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  • I didn’t realize this forum was so anti-SSPX.  The description at the top says this is for SSPX followers.  I assumed that was a sincere description.  I’ve gone to SSPV and CMRI.  I’ve spoken to their priests.  Choosing the SSPX for me was not an uneducated decision.  I’m not going to argue the whys and what nots here about that decision.  

    I wouldn’t call anyone here intolerant and judgmental but it does reaffirm that there is a sect out there that really does not want to authentically help others who are seeking truth…they only want to further the hurt and embarrassment “newbies” might feel after suffering years of being poorly catechized (outside of their control usually subjected on them by Vat2 families and bad parochial schools) and having to navigate their faith without clear direction from trusted leaders/clarity.  

    For those who have given me some good solid resources to help my family and I….it is truly appreciated.  May God bless you for your efforts and reward you!  

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #12 on: March 26, 2023, 02:16:29 PM »
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  • I didn’t realize this forum was so anti-SSPX.  The description at the top says this is for SSPX followers.  I assumed that was a sincere description.  I’ve gone to SSPV and CMRI.  I’ve spoken to their priests.  Choosing the SSPX for me was not an uneducated decision.  I’m not going to argue the whys and what nots here about that decision. 

    I wouldn’t call anyone here intolerant and judgmental but it does reaffirm that there is a sect out there that really does not want to authentically help others who are seeking truth…they only want to further the hurt and embarrassment “newbies” might feel after suffering years of being poorly catechized (outside of their control usually subjected on them by Vat2 families and bad parochial schools) and having to navigate their faith without clear direction from trusted leaders/clarity. 

    For those who have given me some good solid resources to help my family and I….it is truly appreciated.  May God bless you for your efforts and reward you! 

    IMO, it's fine to attend an SSPX chapel. I have a big problem with the leadership of the SSPX and the direction it is going, but I still attend an SSPX chapel when I can make the 3 hour drive, which is difficult in the winter due to snow. The priest at the SSPX chapel that I attend is still good and solid. A lot of SSPX priests are still good, despite the problem with the leadership of the SSPX.

    I converted to Catholicism through the SSPX, so I'm grateful to them for that. I received a good catechism from them, but that was before the 2008 and 2012 problems. I also think that if you have no other option, it's okay to attend a diocesan TLM, though many here will disagree. I would rather attend a diocesan TLM than stay home most Sundays and not go to mass at all. True, you won't hear anything about the disastrous V2 council at a diocesan TLM, but if you already know about it, you can just go for the sacraments, and be aware of the problems with a diocesan TLM. The sacraments are very import to me, and I suspect to you too. Ask Our Lord and Our Lady for direction, though you may have already done so.

    IMO, it's also good to listen and take into consideration the views of your husband, even if you views conflict with his. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #13 on: March 26, 2023, 02:20:02 PM »
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  • True, you won't hear anything about the disasterous V2 council at a diocesan TLM, but if you already know about it, you can just go for the sacraments, and be aware of the problems with a diocesan TLM.

    Ironically, the exact same thing can be said of an SSPX chapel (i.e., I haven't heard a sermon dedicated to refuting conciliar errors or Roman modernism in the last 10 years, and there have been 4 different priests in that time).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Baptism and joining SSPX vs diocese parish
    « Reply #14 on: March 26, 2023, 03:32:48 PM »
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  • How is it you moved but didn’t have this figured out? I have been thinking of relocating my family, and my #1 consideration is proximity to the Mass. there is a family that visits our parish sometimes, they recently moved from out of state and it’s a 2.5 hour drive. 2 young kids and a newborn. So it could be worse
    .

    This is an fantastic post and you should not have received a downvote for this. When selecting a place to live, access to Mass and a chapel (preferably with a resident priest) must be the TOP priority. And if people live a distance from Mass, they have to attend as often as they can.

    The Mass is the most important thing in the entire world, by far. Nothing else even comes close.