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Author Topic: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?  (Read 9795 times)

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Offline DecemRationis

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #75 on: May 04, 2021, 12:19:38 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2021, 09:06:14 AM
     In Catholic thinking, it is the Magisterium which is the SOLE legitimate interpreter of Tradition.  Period.  That's the only thing that differentiates Catholics from the Protestant heretics, and you have crossed the line over into Protestantism.  Your constant assertion of believing dogma "as it is written" (derived from a misreading of that passage in Trent) sounds exactly like the Prots who quote lines from Scripture out of context with assumed interpretations. 

    This is laughable. The only thing? How about devotion to the Blessed Mother and the saints? How about the sacraments and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? How about the Holy Rosary? I'm sure you get the picture. 

    And you have the nerve to say Stubborn's spouting "nonsense" and is "bankrupt as to the sensus fidei." So says the man that has St. Alphonsus denying the necessity of the sacraments by allowing for justification by an implicit BOD contrary to his reading of Trent, so says the man who "doubts" that the V2 popes are true popes of the true Church while holding that the true Church is indefectible in her sacraments and laws and those same popes have promulgated defectible trash and corruption . . . what's to doubt?

    Physician, heal thyself already. 

    Some of us worship God, and not men. Your nonsense about the "Magisterium" is what got us into this predicament, and not errors about EENS, which, if the sensus fidei was healthy - like Stubborn's - the heretical V2 popes would have been facing empty pews versus populum in their heretical "Masses" and the populum wouldn't have swallowed it as coming from an "indefectible" magisterium. 

    You should go back and read the spanking Drew gave you about dogma being the proximate rule of faith, oh defender of the sensus fidei. 
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #76 on: May 04, 2021, 01:57:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on May 04, 2021, 12:19:38 PM
    This is laughable. The only thing?

    Yes, the only thing ... formally speaking.  Particular points of doctrine are material differences.  We're talking about the rule that informs the formal rule of faith.

    Based on the maniacal ranting in the rest of your post, it's clear that you too are on the verge of losing the faith.

    Drew was exposed for his ignorance.  We had an R&R type join CI at one point who read the referenced thread and agreed that Drew was flat out wrong.  And if you buy into that nonsense, you've all but lost the faith.

    You've also gone psychologically unstable based on your recent posting history.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #77 on: May 04, 2021, 02:40:51 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2021, 01:57:49 PM
    Yes, the only thing ... formally speaking.  Particular points of doctrine are material differences.  We're talking about the rule that informs the formal rule of faith.

    Based on the maniacal ranting in the rest of your post, it's clear that you too are on the verge of losing the faith.

    Drew was exposed for his ignorance.  We had an R&R type join CI at one point who read the referenced thread and agreed that Drew was flat out wrong.  And if you buy into that nonsense, you've all but lost the faith.

    You've also gone psychologically unstable based on your recent posting history.

    What's also funny - nay, HILARIOUS - is you calling "maniacal ranting" observations that point out the absurd contradiction between your doctrine of "doubtful" popes and the Church's indefectibiity.  Again - what's to doubt? You've said "doubtful" popes have promulgated defectible garbage, yet what you maintain regarding the papacy and the Church's indefectibility makes their being true popes IMPOSSIBLE, since a true pope of the true Church could never do such a thing. Follow your own "doctrine" to its inevitable logic. 

    Empty your bowels or get off the doubt already. 

    And follow the logic of your decrying heretical BODers for denying the "necessity" of the sacraments: a doctor of the Church, St. Alphonsus, is a heretic by the same logic, since he allows for a justification by an implicit BOD and you say that Trent at most allows for the "classical BOD" of an explicit desire for the sacrament causing justification, though of course you think even that reading is a misreading by all the doctors, saints, etc. who preceded you in your vast learning and wisdom. 

    So, here's what we have: you've made a mockery of the "indefectible" church by your "doubt" - since these possibly true popes have foisted defectible garbage on the Church in her sacraments and laws, and your "doctrine" makes a revered saint and doctor a heretic for denying the necessity of the sacraments. 

    But I'm "maniacal" and "psychologically unstable" for following the logic of your profound musings to their inevitable conclusion . . . which you think you can run away from, or cover with claims of "maniacal ranting." :laugh1:

    Tell you what: you stop calling brothers and sisters here idiots, heretics, morons etc. and I'll leave you and your contradictions alone. 

    Deal?  
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #78 on: May 04, 2021, 02:43:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2021, 01:57:49 PM
    Yes, the only thing ... formally speaking.  Particular points of doctrine are material differences.  We're talking about the rule that informs the formal rule of faith.

    Based on the maniacal ranting in the rest of your post, it's clear that you too are on the verge of losing the faith.

    Drew was exposed for his ignorance.  We had an R&R type join CI at one point who read the referenced thread and agreed that Drew was flat out wrong.  And if you buy into that nonsense, you've all but lost the faith.

    You've also gone psychologically unstable based on your recent posting history.

    And Drew destroyed you.
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #79 on: May 04, 2021, 02:45:00 PM »
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    • Yes, the position of doubt is strange to me. Lad says he doubts between A and B yet he constantly says B is not Catholic so there is no reason to doubt because the doubt means that the non-Catholic position might be true. The only reason to doubt for him would be to doubt between sedevacantism and the full blown Novus Ordo as to him, regular traditionalism is not Catholic. Pretty soon, Lad, you too will be taking Communion in the hand and listening to Bishop Barron podcasts. Who knows. You may even stop being a flat-earth sympathizer.
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    Offline Matto

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #80 on: May 04, 2021, 02:47:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on May 04, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
    And Drew destroyed you.
    I liked reading Drew's arguments in those threads.
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    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #81 on: May 04, 2021, 03:23:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2021, 01:57:49 PM
    Based on the maniacal ranting in the rest of your post, it's clear that you too are on the verge of losing the faith.

    Drew was exposed for his ignorance.

    I think, you underestimate CathInfo readers. Drew and Decem are able to make their points, while you seem to be using the methods of Kindergärtnerinnen and contemporary governments. 
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    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #82 on: May 04, 2021, 03:25:26 PM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on May 04, 2021, 02:43:04 PM
    And Drew destroyed you.

    If you think that, then you are as much of an idiot as he is.  One need go no farther than to read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the subject.  Your perception of that debate is shaped only by your confirmation bias.  Drew failed to cite a single theologian to back up his theory ... which was made up out of whole cloth as a justification for R&R.

    It is the Magisterium ... and only the Magisterium ... which is the sole interpreter of Tradition, not you, and not Stubborn.
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    Offline Struthio

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #83 on: May 04, 2021, 03:29:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matto on May 04, 2021, 02:45:00 PM
    You may even stop being a flat-earth sympathizer.

    Best comment ever on CathInfo.  :laugh2:
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    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)

    Offline Matto

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #84 on: May 04, 2021, 03:31:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2021, 03:25:26 PM
    It is the Magisterium ... and only the Magisterium ... which is the sole interpreter of Tradition, not you, and not Stubborn.
    You reject the pre-Vatican II Magisterium on EENS and NFP. So there is some room for thinking for oneself in your mind. If we all just blindly accepted the magisterium we would be drinking the Vatican II Kool aid because it was given to us by the magisterium, all 3000 Bishops.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #85 on: May 04, 2021, 03:33:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matto on May 04, 2021, 03:31:06 PM
    You reject the pre-Vatican II Magisterium on EENS and NFP. 

    Hardly, but I'm not going to branch off on either of those subjects here.  Run along, take your meds, and go watch some butterflies or something.  Theology is not your strength.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #86 on: May 04, 2021, 03:36:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on May 04, 2021, 03:25:26 PM
    If you think that, then you are as much of an idiot as he is.  One need go no farther than to read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the subject.  Your perception of that debate is shaped only by your confirmation bias.  Drew failed to cite a single theologian to back up his theory ... which was made up out of whole cloth as a justification for R&R.

    It is the Magisterium ... and only the Magisterium ... which is the sole interpreter of Tradition, not you, and not Stubborn.

    Go read the CE on baptism(desire) or the necessity of baptism.

    "One need go no farther than to read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the subject."

    You're a blast.  :laugh2:
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #87 on: May 04, 2021, 03:37:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matto on May 04, 2021, 02:45:00 PM
    Yes, the position of doubt is strange to me. Lad says he doubts between A and B yet he constantly says B is not Catholic

    That's due to your inability to grasp distinctions.  You evidently failed to recognized when I enumerated multiple permutations, including C, D, E, etc.

    Evidently I have to say it again.  What cannot be doubted is that the Magisterium cannot fail catastrophically as R&R asserts.  You can argue that the Magisterium has not failed (as conservative Novus Ordites do or as XavierSem does).  You can argue that it's not the Magisterium (as sedevacantists and even sedeimpoundists do).  But you cannot argue a failure of the Magisterium.  Even Archbishop Lefebvre was quite clear on this.  That is the one constraint to which I assert that it's not Catholic.  Within those limits, go to town in terms of the permutations on it.

    Modern R&R, which has totally gone off the rails from the position of +Lefebvre, has totally lost its way.  Do I need to quote +Lefebvre on this subject again?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #88 on: May 04, 2021, 03:41:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on May 04, 2021, 03:36:35 PM
    Go read the CE on baptism(desire) or the necessity of baptism.

    "One need go no farther than to read the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the subject."

    You're a blast.  :laugh2:

    Sure, that would not have been sufficient had Drew bothered to produce a single theological source on the subject to challenge the CE.  He had absolutely nothing but his wishful thinking.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
    « Reply #89 on: May 04, 2021, 04:15:40 PM »
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    The only thing? How about devotion to the Blessed Mother and the saints? How about the sacraments and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? How about the Holy Rosary? I'm sure you get the picture.
    :facepalm:  Who told Catholics that all the above was catholic?   ...The Magisterium...which started with the Apostles and the Church Fathers, who handed down Tradition and who codified Scripture.
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