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Author Topic: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?  (Read 27395 times)

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2021, 03:02:25 PM »
Just like in the army, Durango:

You respect the rank, not the man.

Making it personal is the first (and most fatal) mistake.
How can a man be part of a body, let alone the head of that body, when that man doesn't profess the basic tenants of the faith?  In my opinion saying that I am in union with that person is not right, because I'm not in union with him, he is not a Catholic, and I'm not in union with non Catholics.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2021, 03:24:48 PM »
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Lad says right here "if you don't at least have a positive doubt, then you have no business being a Traditional Catholic, for you are a schismatic".
Lad can correct me, but after reading hundreds of his posts (as you have done too), I interpret his theory as saying that:
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1) a Traditional catholic, by definition, does have some doubt/confusion about the V2 popes, because they attend a non-rome sanctioned mass.
2) A traditional catholic, by definition, receives sacraments from "schismatic" (new-rome's perspective) priests.
3) A traditional catholic implicitly rejects V2 and new-rome's authority (in favor of Quo Primum's authority) by attendance at non-rome sanctioned Trad masses, just as anyone who attends an indult implicitly accepts V2 and the new mass.
4) Xavier is an example of Ladislaus' hypocritical schismatic fake-trad, because he fully believes that the V2 popes are popes, and yet he attends Trad masses.  He ignores canon law and goes wherever he wants.
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All Trads are implicit V2 pope doubters.  Sedes are just explicit about the doubt and take it to the extreme.  ...Even most conservative novus ordo-ites are papal doubters.  It's a sign of the times - confusion.
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He considers those who understand that the pope is the pope to be in schism - yes, he is confused.

That's an over-simplification.  


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2021, 03:25:26 PM »
Hey, that was very efficient of Lad:  

Not only does he find another way to call Lefebvre a schismatic, but he contradicts Vatican I all in the same sentence!

For the 18th time, Johnson, +Lefebvre did hold a positive doubt ... as has been clearly docuмented.  It is YOU who are schismatic, not +Lefebvre ... not to mention being heretical vis-a-vis the indefectibility of the Church.  You just keep repeating this assertion hoping that if you say it enough it'll become true.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #53 on: May 03, 2021, 03:27:51 PM »
That's an over-simplification.  

It's either deliberate oversimplification or else he can't think straight.  Actually, I think it's a blend of the two.  Due to confirmation bias, he filters out distinctions that don't fit in with his preconceived conclusions.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2021, 03:42:03 PM »
There's also different kinds of papal doubts that Trads can have.  When one says "papal doubt" that does not mean only 1 thing.
1.  Spiritual Authority - All Trads implicitly doubt the spiritual authority claimed by V2 popes to do and say the unorthodox.
2.  Material Office - Being a Trad does not necessarily mean one doubts that a pope holds the material office.
3.  Spiritual Office - Being a Trad does not necessarily mean one doubts that a pope still has (in potential) spiritual authority.  Some say (i.e. Sedes) that his spiritual office is lost completely, once he utters heresy or abuses his spiritual authority (#1).  Others (i.e. Fr Chazal) say that his spiritual office is impounded due to material error, but could be regained by conversion.
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The loss of spiritual authority seems to be agreed upon by all Trads.  #2 and #3 are debated.