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Author Topic: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?  (Read 28733 times)

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2021, 08:20:14 AM »
From your own citations:
In which case, you call Lefebvre a heretic!

Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2021, 08:28:02 AM »
So let me distill your first substantive point from the ad hominem bluster.

So your assertion is that dogmatic facts are not infallible.

That's absurd.  They are called dogmatic facts precisely because they are DOGMATIC, certain with the certainty of faith.  These are called "facts" to distinguish them from propositions that are of a theological nature, whereas dogmatic facts are of a historical nature.  So you wrote an entire article on dogmatic facts while having no earthly idea about what a dogmatic fact actually is.

I'll dig up the quotes for you from a Cardinal writing about dogmatic facts during the reign of Pope Pius XII who clearly states that if someone denied the legitimacy of Pope Pius XII, he would be a heretic.
Therefore, given the Lefebvre citations you have mustered which, according to you, “openly question” the legitimacy of popes, which your further sources say it is heretical to do, you must conclude either:
1) Lefebvre was a sede! (Get out their smelling salts!)
Or
2) Lefebvre is a heretic for questioning dogmatic facts!
Doesn’t the absurdity of these options imply to you that you are just a windbag who has no idea what he is talking about?


Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2021, 08:34:29 AM »
The "una cuм" debate is simply, uncharitable legalism, like the Pharisees of Christ's time would invent to divide the people and keep power over them.  In particular, Fr Cekada's article on the subject (God rest his soul) is historically, liturgically and logically wrong.  The whole idea is a Sede power play to keep the laity in the pews. 
.
The prayer itself mentions "and all orthodox believers".  So...if the pope/bishop you are praying for aren't orthodox, then even if you mention them, the prayer doesn't apply to them specifically, but only to their office.  It's so simple there doesn't even need to be a discussion.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2021, 08:41:19 AM »
The "una cuм" debate is simply, uncharitable legalism, like the Pharisees of Christ's time would invent to divide the people and keep power over them.  In particular, Fr Cekada's article on the subject (God rest his soul) is historically, liturgically and logically wrong.  The whole idea is a Sede power play to keep the laity in the pews.  
.
The prayer itself mentions "and all orthodox believers".  So...if the pope/bishop you are praying for aren't orthodox, then even if you mention them, the prayer doesn't apply to them specifically, but only to their office.  It's so simple there doesn't even need to be a discussion.

I agree.  Even the Dimond Brothers are to the left of Fr. Cekada on this issue:
https://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/una-cuм-mass/

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2021, 08:45:21 AM »
In which case, you call Lefebvre a heretic!

Logic 101, Sean.  YOU would call +Lefebvre a heretic.  I on the other hand assert (and back up with citations) that +Lefebvre did NOT consider the legitimacy of the papal claimants to be dogmatic fact, but rather that they were DOUBTFUL.  In your deliberate mischaracterization of +Lefebvre as a dogmatic sedeplenist, it is YOU who logically pain him as a heretic.