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Author Topic: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?  (Read 28017 times)

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #125 on: September 26, 2021, 09:51:20 AM »
In Catholic thinking, it is the Magisterium which is the SOLE legitimate interpreter of Tradition.  Period.  That's the only thing that differentiates Catholics from the Protestant heretics, and you have crossed the line over into Protestantism.  Your constant assertion of believing dogma "as it is written" (derived from a misreading of that passage in Trent) sounds exactly like the Prots who quote lines from Scripture out of context with assumed interpretations.

This is laughable. The only thing? How about devotion to the Blessed Mother and the saints? How about the sacraments and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? How about the Holy Rosary? I'm sure you get the picture.

And you have the nerve to say Stubborn's spouting "nonsense" and is "bankrupt as to the sensus fidei." So says the man that has St. Alphonsus denying the necessity of the sacraments by allowing for justification by an implicit BOD contrary to his reading of Trent, so says the man who "doubts" that the V2 popes are true popes of the true Church while holding that the true Church is indefectible in her sacraments and laws and those same popes have promulgated defectible trash and corruption . . . what's to doubt?

Physician, heal thyself already.

Some of us worship God, and not men. Your nonsense about the "Magisterium" is what got us into this predicament, and not errors about EENS, which, if the sensus fidei was healthy - like Stubborn's - the heretical V2 popes would have been facing empty pews versus populum in their heretical "Masses" and the populum wouldn't have swallowed it as coming from an "indefectible" magisterium.

You should go back and read the spanking Drew gave you about dogma being the proximate rule of faith, oh defender of the sensus fidei.


Viganò seems to reject the false idea of modernists and neo-modernists, who see the Magisterium as the proximate rule of faith, instead of the Dogma proposed by the Magisterium.

Quote from: Viganò
Anyone with common sense can see that it is an absurdity to want to interpret a Council, since it is and ought to be a clear and unequivocal norm of Faith and Morals.
remnantnewspaper.com

No magisterial interpretation needed for defined dogma.


@Ladislaus
Are you going to call Viganò a "Protestant heretic"?

Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #126 on: September 26, 2021, 12:15:59 PM »

If I'm not mistaken, Bishop Williamson himself admits to doubt as to whether or not Bergoglio is the pope. (He has done this many times, even while Fr. Gruner was alive.) This also, if memory serves correctly, was stated in his most recent interview with Luigi. Bishop Fellay has stated that one day we may say that Bergoglio was not the pope. I don't know a Traditional group that does not doubt the legitimacy of the Conciliar church papal claimants.

The laity that follow those groups sometimes get really crazy against those of the sede position by asserting it is heresy to reject Bergoglio and on one account I was told I must submit to the Dalai Lama if elected pope by resistance faithful.

It would be a good thing if they would pay attention to what the priests and bishops they follow actually say. Dogmatic sedeplenists do the bidding of the nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #127 on: September 26, 2021, 03:44:05 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, Bishop Williamson himself admits to doubt as to whether or not Bergoglio is the pope. (He has done this many times, even while Fr. Gruner was alive.) This also, if memory serves correctly, was stated in his most recent interview with Luigi. Bishop Fellay has stated that one day we may say that Bergoglio was not the pope. I don't know a Traditional group that does not doubt the legitimacy of the Conciliar church papal claimants.

People don't understand how critical this is.  Normally a pope's legitimacy is known with dogmatic certainty, as a dogmatic fact.  So when comments of this nature are made, this is not actually sedeplenism, but something in between, which I have termed sede-doubtism.  Sedeplenism in the strict sense requires dogmatic certainty, which means that one could no more speculate that Bergoglio is not pope than one could speculate that there might only be Two Persons in the Holy Trinity.

If you were to ask any Traditional Catholic, do you believe with the certainty of faith that Bergoglio is pope, i.e., are you as certain that Bergoglio is pope as you are that Our Lord is present in the Blessed Sacrament ... you'd get a loud cry in unison of heck no.  At best people may have some personal moral certainty.  For most Traditional Catholics, Bergoglio falls squarely into the category of papa dubius ... which of course resolves into nullus papa.  Sede-doubtism reduces, due to the lack of dogmatic certainty, to a practical sedevacantism, the nullus papa.

Moral certainty does not count.  If Bergoglio were to come out tomorrow and solemnly define something, people who don't have certainty of faith regarding Bergoglio's legitimacy could not have the requisite certainty of faith regarding that dogma.  That's why theologians held to the maxim of papa dubius nullus papa.

Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #128 on: September 26, 2021, 11:04:15 PM »
What would it take to make you believe Francis has lost any authority to the papacy (if he ever had any to begin with)?





It would be nice to have a Council called to rule and judge the Pope of heresy, but since the visible Holy See has been hijacked, that's not going to happen. 
But we don't need a council in light of Francis's public heresies.

Uttering "Francis's" name in the Canon... do you think that is pleasing to God ?

In Pope Leo XIII's St. Michael's prayer (original long version), he described one Church and two thrones.  Francis is obviously on the false throne.

St. Francis of Assisi warned of a non canonically elected Pope.  Our Lady of La Salette said the Church will be eclipsed.

It's here!  Why be so scrupulous as not skip over the anti-pope's name in the Canon?


Prayers Before Consecration
The priest bows over the Altar and says silently:
Te Igitur
For the Church
Te ígitur, clementíssime Pater, per Jesum
Christum Fílium tuum, Dóminum nostrum, súpplices rogámus, ac pétimus, uti accépta hábeas, et benedícas, hæc + dona, hæc + múnera, hæc + sancta sacrifícia illibáta, in primis, quæ tibi offérimus pro Ecclésia tua sancta cathólica: quam pacificáre, custodíre, adunáre, et régere dignéris toto orbe terrárum: una cuм fámulo tuo Papa nostro N . . . et Antístite nostro N . . . et ómnibus orthodóxis, atque cathólicæ et apostólicæ fídei cultóribus.
Most merciful Father, we humbly pray and beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ Thy Son, Our Lord, to accept and to bless these + gifts, these + presents, these + holy unspotted Sacrifices, which we offer up to Thee, in the first place, for Thy Holy Catholic Church, that it may please Thee to grant her peace, to preserve, unite, and govern her throughout the world; as also for Thy servant N . . . our Pope, and N . . . our Bishop, and for all orthodox believers and all who profess the Catholic and Apostolic faith.


Re: Are there any anti una cuм people on cathinfo?
« Reply #129 on: September 26, 2021, 11:21:49 PM »
What would it take to make you believe Francis has lost any authority to the papacy (if he ever had any to begin with)?





It would be nice to have a Council called to rule and judge the Pope of heresy, but since the visible Holy See has been hijacked, that's not going to happen. 
But we don't need a council in light of Francis's public heresies.

Uttering "Francis's" name in the Canon... do you think that is pleasing to God ?  Is the logic that God wants Francis to destroy the visible Church?

In Pope Leo XIII's St. Michael's prayer (original long version), he described one Church and two thrones.  Francis is obviously on the false throne.

St. Francis of Assisi warned of a non canonically elected Pope.  Our Lady of La Salette said the Church will be eclipsed.

It's here!  Why be so scrupulous as not to skip over the anti-pope's name in the Canon?   Let's pray for what few "Orthodox believers" that are left.


Prayers Before Consecration
The priest bows over the Altar and says silently:
Te Igitur
For the Church
Te ígitur, clementíssime Pater, per Jesum
Christum Fílium tuum, Dóminum nostrum, súpplices rogámus, ac pétimus, uti accépta hábeas, et benedícas, hæc + dona, hæc + múnera, hæc + sancta sacrifícia illibáta, in primis, quæ tibi offérimus pro Ecclésia tua sancta cathólica: quam pacificáre, custodíre, adunáre, et régere dignéris toto orbe terrárum: una cuм fámulo tuo Papa nostro N . . . et Antístite nostro N . . . et ómnibus orthodóxis, atque cathólicæ et apostólicæ fídei cultóribus.
Most merciful Father, we humbly pray and beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ Thy Son, Our Lord, to accept and to bless these + gifts, these + presents, these + holy unspotted Sacrifices, which we offer up to Thee, in the first place, for Thy Holy Catholic Church, that it may please Thee to grant her peace, to preserve, unite, and govern her throughout the world; as also for Thy servant N . . . our Pope, and N . . . our Bishop, and for all orthodox believers and all who profess the Catholic and Apostolic faith.