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Author Topic: Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2  (Read 737 times)

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Offline Irenaeus

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Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2
« on: June 15, 2009, 11:20:15 PM »
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  • Church of England attempts to broaden appeal with songs by U2 and prayers for Google

    Christian services that feature DJs, songs of the Irish band U2 and prayers for the chief executives of Google and Wal-Mart are being promoted by the Church of England.

    By Jonathan Wynne-Jones, Religious Affairs Correspondent
    Published: 9:00PM BST 13 Jun 2009
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/5523904/Church-of-England-attempts-to-broaden-appeal-with-songs-by-U2-and-prayers-for-Google.html

    The ideas for alternative-style worship are part of an initiative launched by Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, to appeal to the younger generation.

    They are set out in a new book compiled by the Church's Fresh Expressions programme, which aims to boost church attendance with more relevant and exciting services.

    However, traditionalists have criticised the unorthodox services as "pointless" and "shallow", and have warned that experimenting with Church tradition would do more harm than good.

    One Holy Communion service promoted in the book, called Ancient Faith, Future Mission, begins with the congregation being shown a video clip from the YouTube website about a United Nations anti-poverty campaign.

    Worshippers are told that "our planet is messed up" and that "things are not right".

    They are then asked to approach the altar and rub sea salt on their fingers to represent tears, before walking around and meditating at eight "prayer stations" representing themes such as "gender equality" and "environmental sustainability".

    A psalm is recited in "beat poetry" style to the accompaniment of African Djembe drums, and prayers are said "for the corporate world, for influential CEOs who oversee billion-dollar industries".

    The prayers continue: "We pray for John Chambers of Cisco Systems, Bill Gates of Microsoft, Dr Eric Schmidt of Google Inc, H Lee Scott Jr of Wal-Mart Stores and others who have already made commitments to justice."

    Among the alternative services explored in the book, which is co-edited by the Rt Rev Steven Croft, the new Bishop of Sheffield, are so-called "U2charists", services in which the congregation receives communion but sings the songs of the Irish rock band U2 instead of traditional hymns.

    The services, which include such songs as "Mysterious Ways", "One", and "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", have been pioneered at St Swithin's church in Lincoln.

    The book also features Transcendence, an event held in York Minister in which traditional Latin chant is set by DJs to hip hop or ambient dance music and video images are projected onto the walls.

    The Rev Sue Wallace, who has pioneered the event by blending modern technology with ancient prayers, says that the response has been overwhelmingly positive.

    Many of the services promoted in the book feature physical activity and symbols alongside traditional sermons.

    In chapter of the book, Archbishop Williams says: "The Bible is full of stories about God communicating through act and sign as well as language ... Far from being bound to communication through clear information economically expressed in words, our society is still deeply sensitive to symbols and inclined to express important feelings and perceptions in this way."

    The Fresh Expressions initiative was launched by the Archbishop in 2004 to combat the significant drop in churchgoing that has been seen in Britian over recent decades. In the past few years the decline appears to have steadied.

    Church leaders are particularly concerned about the loss of younger people, who are abandoning the pews at a greater rate than their older counterparts.

    The Rt Rev Graham Cray, who heads the Fresh Expressions initiative, said that it was vital that the Church explored new ways of engaging with modern culture.

    "We have to reconnect with a very large percentage of the population that has no contact or interest in traditional church," he said.

    "It is important to offer spirituality to people who are offered a multi-choice lifestyle and who think that the last place they'll find it is in church."

    He said that the new services were carefully designed for specific communities and stressed they was not supposed to challenge traditional worship.

    However, the Rev David Houlding, prebendary at St Paul's Cathedral, bemoaned the Church's attempt to widen its appeal.

    "All this is tosh. It's just a passing fad, irrelevant, shallow and pointless," he said.

    "There's no depth to it and it's embarrassing because it'll make people think that we're eccentric and silly."

    The Fresh Expressions initiative has spawned churches for surfers as well as commissioning priests to work in night clubs and skateboard parks.
    The business of the Christian is nothing else but to be ever preparing for death. — Irenaeus Of Lyons


    Offline Irenaeus

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    Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2
    « Reply #1 on: June 15, 2009, 11:22:29 PM »
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  • Quote
    However, traditionalists have criticised the unorthodox services as "pointless" and "shallow", and have warned that experimenting with Church tradition would do more harm than good.


    They've been experimenting for 500 years, why stop now? :laugh1:
    The business of the Christian is nothing else but to be ever preparing for death. — Irenaeus Of Lyons


    Offline Dulcamara

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    Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2
    « Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 10:17:26 AM »
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    The services, which include such songs as "Mysterious Ways", "One", and "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For", have been pioneered at St Swithin's church in Lincoln.


     :roll-laugh2:

    Yeah, and they never will in "the church of what's happening now".

    It's funny, they talk about this like it's something new. But this is nothing but a continuation of the whole "novus" experiment. One that people have been trying for how many years now, and still cannot make people saints or happy with all of the rock music and bizarre things they've tried.

    You just have to wonder... At what point (if ever) will people finally realize that when you take religion and make it secular, it's not religion anymore? It's a 45th-rate social get-together at an equally bad venue. If you want entertainment, there are only about a billion better, more exciting, more fun, more state-of-the-art places to go to get it. And if you want a social club, you could just stay home with your computer, and not have to go out at all, and STILL have more fun.

    How do people, who are not insane, NOT see or realize this?
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi

    Offline Raoul76

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    Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2
    « Reply #3 on: June 19, 2009, 12:01:03 AM »
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  • If the person above me is in Vatican II, as I would assume they are from their banner, then I believe I have just been treated to the most exquisite display of irony that has ever been seen on God's green Earth.  

    If you are not insane, dulcamara, how do you not see that the "Pope" you approve of condones and encourages all of this pagan mumbo-jumbo? Has he renounced Vatican II and its worship of false gods, was I asleep, did I miss this?
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Dulcamara

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    Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2
    « Reply #4 on: June 19, 2009, 01:28:16 AM »
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  •  As a Catholic, I have to acknowledge the position of the man who holds the papal office, whatever his behavior or words. Sure, going sede is a lot easier (and less humiliating), but... then there's the small matter of the truth.

    It's kind of like having an insane relative. Yeah, it's embarrassing if they throw themselves on the floor and start yelling or singing or who knows what... but unfortunately, one's personal humiliation doesn't remove their relation to that person.

    Reality is really inconvenient that way.  :rolleyes:
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi


    Offline Raoul76

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    Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2
    « Reply #5 on: June 19, 2009, 01:37:00 AM »
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  • But Dulcamara, he doesn't hold the papal office because no Pope can teach heresy.  He can be immoral, he can be a murderer, but if he teaches heresy, he automatically ceases to be Pope.  

    How can the Ark of Salvation, the Catholic Church, give its children idolatrous lies, and tell them they were obligated to believe them?  No, this could not be the Church.  God would not allow such a thing.  He loves us too much to force-feed us poison that sends us to hell.  The Church has not failed, but it is in the shadows.  The sedevacantists ARE the Church now.  

    Don't you remember Jesus saying that when he came back, he wasn't sure he'd even find faith?  How do you think that happens?  And don't you realize you support a false Church that says God is the devil, that Muslims and Jєωs and Catholics worship the same God?  This is devil-worship phrased in a nice way.

    You are trying to make 2 + 2 = 5.  I know that as Catholics we are trained to be obedient.  But you will figure this out.  You must see that by being loyal to these Popes, you are being DISLOYAL to Christ.  Every time you attend one of these perverted Masses you are stabbing Him in the heart.  He is being profaned by these false "priests" who don't even have valid Holy Orders anymore.

    The Church provided for this emergency by defining infallibility at Vatican I, whereby we know that no true Pope could say what these men are saying.  I appreciate you're trying to do the right thing but think it over some more.  Time is running out.  Read, look at the situation from every side.  
    Readers: Please IGNORE all my postings here. I was a recent convert and fell into errors, even heresy for which hopefully my ignorance excuses. These include rejecting the "rhythm method," rejecting the idea of "implicit faith," and being brieflfy quasi-Jansenist. I also posted occasions of sins and links to occasions of sin, not understanding the concept much at the time, so do not follow my links.

    Offline Matthew

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    Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2
    « Reply #6 on: June 19, 2009, 10:03:25 AM »
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  • I'll pass over your other points -- but your assertion that we attend Masses said by priests 'without Holy Orders' is false.

    Dulcamara attends an independent chapel (with an old, retired priest from before V2), and I attend an SSPX chapel. Both priests have valid orders.

    Matthew
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    Offline Dulcamara

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    Anglicans try to broaden appeal with songs by U2
    « Reply #7 on: June 19, 2009, 01:29:08 PM »
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  • I applaud your encouragement for people to study the situation, however I have, which is why I'm not a sedevacantist. (Or an atheist, a no-Catholic, or anything else.)

    However arguing it back and forth will have no fruit with me. Once I find the truth beyond any shadow of a reasonable doubt, I hang onto it with a death grip. So to save you the trouble, I think you should know that the chances of success in changing my mind, or even getting me to hesitate, even 0.00000000000001% on my current position, is a very absolute zero percent.

    The wonderful thing about the truth is that if we do study honestly (and not swayed by passions, pride or emotion), the truth is definitely knowable. But once you've found it, it would be insanity to look any further. When one finds it, however, absolutely and beyond any question, and can say with 100% certainty that they found it without their emotions or pride getting in the way, but on facts (be they pleasant or horribly unpleasant) alone, that is the point at which any sane person closes the book, and admits no room for discussion. Of course, only when one is positive that they have found the truth, and not merely twisted it around to be what they would rather it be.

    However, you can let the rotten vegetables of your infallible and unquestioningly superior judgment fly, if it will make you feel better. Go ahead. Insult me. Denounce me. Condemn me. Excommunicate me. I am impervious. You see, the sedevacantists and "antipapists" (for lack of a proper term) may have the fiery sword, but God has the gavel. And I have better things to do than go 80 rounds in a forum with a well greased python. (I say python because the devil would also make a very difficult intellectual sparing partner, as slippery as he is with his truly superior intellect. Fortunately we don't have to win an argument with the devil. We only have to find the truth... whatever it really is... and adhere to it, regardless of what he, or anyone else, says.)

    Sorry if I've been offensive, but sometimes the only way to get a point across is to tell it in such an utterly frank way, that one's meaning can't possibly be mistaken. But don't worry. I don't ACTUALLY think of you as a well-oiled snake. I hope everyone ends up in heaven. I'm just not willing to run myself through a meat grinder in vain.

     :sign-surrender:
    I renounce any and all of my former views against what the Church through Pope Leo XIII said, "This, then, is the teaching of the Catholic Church ...no one of the several forms of government is in itself condemned, inasmuch as none of them contains anythi