Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => The Sacred: Catholic Liturgy, Chant, Prayers => Topic started by: Cryptinox on March 07, 2024, 01:00:46 PM
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Does anyone here know any good Catholic alternatives to the Chosen? My father asked about watching it with me because I am more knowledgeable on matters of faith than he is but I've heard bad stuff about the Chosen so I'd like some alternatives.
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How about something less rich to the senses and more uplifting to the soul and intellect, such as listening to classical music to find the few gems hidden in there, or watching Bishop Williamson interviews and conferences on the encyclicals, or a podcast like The History of Rome, which shows how little human nature has changed even to the extent of government and political corruption.
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How about something less rich to the senses and more uplifting to the soul and intellect, such as listening to classical music to find the few gems hidden in there, or watching Bishop Williamson interviews and conferences on the encyclicals, or a podcast like The History of Rome, which shows how little human nature has changed even to the extent of government and political corruption.
My dad isn't someone who'd really be engaged with that. This is for my father's sake, not mine. I think this could be a source of grace for him.
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I've heard bad stuff about the Chosen so I'd like some alternatives.
It's Protestant; portrays Our Lady having a painful childbirth, etc.
https://gloria.tv/ has many traditional Catholic films.
You might be able to find somethings not contrary to traditional Catholicism on: https://formed.org/
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If you like radio dramas (this one is very good) check out the podcast on Spotify called "Ave Maria Hour." The episodes on the life of Christ in particular. Some of th other episodes are not so great. But this was recorded by Franciscans in New York prior to Vatican 2 with Professional voice actors. The portrayal of the pharisees and their intense hatred for our Lord is especially good. I highly recommend it. They have the whole Life of Christ on there.
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The Passion of the Christ.
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Your father wanted to watch The Chosen with you. I have watched it with my husband on dvd. You can watch it online for free.
You can always point out the errors when they come.
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I don’t want to give bad advice.
Maybe you should pray about it.
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I really liked Jesus of Nazareth (1977) when I first saw it, though sadly it depicts our Lady as experiencing the pains of childbirth. I watched it a few years ago early on in my Catholic conversion journey, so I don't remember if it had any other theological issues, but it seemed to stick closely with the four gospels (the depiction of Jesus is much better than in The Chosen). The director was a Catholic, but had a bit of a checkered past. Sadly he was sɛҳuąƖly abused by a priest as a child and he came out as gαy twenty years after the movie's release, but apparently according to his Wikipedia article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franco_Zeffirelli#Criticism), "He was criticized by members of the gαy community for upholding the Catholic Church's position on ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity[37][38][39] and by others for support of the Church's position on abortion,[38][39] which extended to calling for capital punishment for women who had terminated a pregnancy.[39]". Likewise, "He also roused accusations of antisemitism for describing Martin Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ as a product of "that Jєωιѕн cultural scuм of Los Angeles which is always spoiling for a chance to attack the Christian world."[38]", so he's pretty aware of the merchant issue. I'm in the process of re-watching the six hour long movie, so I'll try to keep an eye out for anything else that contradicts the Catholic faith.
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I'm not convinced about the "pains of childbith" angle. Our Lord and Our Lady took on many of the sufferings that they would normally have been exempt of due to being free from Original Sin. Suffering and death in general are the consequences of Original Sin, but they willingly accepted them anyway. I didn't watch this movie nor do I intend to, but if they depiced Our Lady as screaming/shreiking, etc., then that would be completely out of line, as I'm sure she bore whatever suffering she did experience with full dignity.
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I'm not convinced about the "pains of childbith" angle. Our Lord and Our Lady took on many of the sufferings that they would normally have been exempt of due to being free from Original Sin. Suffering and death in general are the consequences of Original Sin, but they willingly accepted them anyway. I didn't watch this movie nor do I intend to, but if they depiced Our Lady as screaming/shreiking, etc., then that would be completely out of line, as I'm sure she bore whatever suffering she did experience with full dignity.
I agree in principle with this. And I would add also that suffering and death are natural to man even abstracting from sin. Integrity, impassibility, immortality, infused knowledge... these are praeternatural gifts which were given to Adam and Eve in connection with original justice. The nexus between these gifts and original justice itself is debated by theologians, and either way the justice of our Lady ks not identical with the original justice of Adam and Eve and does not necessarily imply the praeternatural gifts. In fact this ties in with our Lady's death. A few modern theologians including Guerard Des Lauriers, following the lead of Roschini, hold the novel opinion that Our Lady did not suffer death. They too use the argument that death is a punishment for sin. However not only does this disregard all of tradition in East and West, but it also ignores the positive aspects of suffering and death, abstracting from sin as well as the fact that suffering and death are both in fact natural to man. Greater love hath no man than to lay down his life for his friends...
I believe with Scheeben that our Lord (and our Lady although he doesn't say that part) had the gift of integrity, which he describes as the complete subjection of all lower faculties (including sense as well as bodily functions, the collapse of which leads to death) to the will. Thus Jesus' suffering and death were perfectly compatible with the gift(s) since he only suffered and died insofar as he willed it. We can say the same for our Lady.
However as to the pains of child birth, it doesn't seem tenable to me to ascribe them to our Lady. Since she was and is always virginal, I don't know where the pains would be coming from... her physical virginity being intact during birth necessitates a miraculous birth and however we choose to describe that, it would seem to me that the physical pains of the birth canal, etc could only apply to a process which would rupture the physical virginity of a woman. I don't want to be graphic here but I don't understand mechanically whence the pains would derive if not from the typical physical process of birth. Still in principle our Lady suffering pains typically seen exclusively as a punishment for sin is no problem theologically at all.
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Hi. We watched the Jesus of Nazareth miniseries from 1977 this past summer. We got it on DVD, but I believe it's available to stream on Amazon now.
(This is my first post. I hope I did okay.)
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However as to the pains of child birth, it doesn't seem tenable to me to ascribe them to our Lady. Since she was and is always virginal, I don't know where the pains would be coming from... her physical virginity being intact during birth necessitates a miraculous birth and however we choose to describe that, it would seem to me that the physical pains of the birth canal, etc could only apply to a process which would rupture the physical virginity of a woman.
Not sure, but the preservation of her physical virginity would be miraculous in either case, so the same miracle could also allow Our Lady to have experienced the contractions without violating her physical virginity. I'm not saying it's certain one oway or the other, just that it's possible.
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Not sure, but the preservation of her physical virginity would be miraculous in either case, so the same miracle could also allow Our Lady to have experienced the contractions without violating her physical virginity. I'm not saying it's certain one oway or the other, just that it's possible.
Even so, the pain of childbirth is the curse of original sin, without which she came into existence.
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Even so, the pain of childbirth is the curse of original sin, without which she came into existence.
You missed the last few posts here. This is by no means evident that she would not have willed to accept these pains, just as Our Lord accepted suffering and death Himself.
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This will probably show my ignorance on the topic, but do the "pains of childbirth" wrt Original Sin necessarily include all that happens prior to the actual birth?
Was Mary free of all physical pain? It seems to me that she would still experience pain if she cut her finger, for example.
As for the movie Jesus of Nazareth, it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I think the portrayed 'pain' she underwent was related to what came before the actual birth while traveling to Bethlehem, not the actual birth.
Side note: absolutely loved the actress who played the Virgin Mary. My favorite.
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This will probably show my ignorance on the topic, but do the "pains of childbirth" wrt Original Sin necessarily include all that happens prior to the actual birth?
Was Mary free of all physical pain? It seems to me that she would still experience pain if she cut her finger, for example.
As for the movie Jesus of Nazareth, it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I think the portrayed 'pain' she underwent was related to what came before the actual birth while traveling to Bethlehem, not the actual birth.
Side note: absolutely loved the actress who played the Virgin Mary. My favorite.
I believe it’s the common opinion that Our Lord passed through her womb in the same manner that He passed through the doors of the room where the Apostles were meeting after His resurrection. Thus, she experienced no pain and her virginal integrity was kept completely intact.
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This will probably show my ignorance on the topic, but do the "pains of childbirth" wrt Original Sin necessarily include all that happens prior to the actual birth?
Was Mary free of all physical pain? It seems to me that she would still experience pain if she cut her finger, for example.
As for the movie Jesus of Nazareth, it's been a long time since I've seen it, but I think the portrayed 'pain' she underwent was related to what came before the actual birth while traveling to Bethlehem, not the actual birth.
Side note: absolutely loved the actress who played the Virgin Mary. My favorite.
I think yes the pains of childbirth include those leading up to it. But I suppose you could distinguish. Either way, if Our Lady had the gift of integrity, her freedom from pain was subject to her will. So she could will to accept the pains. And also, not all of the curses of the Fall were things intrinsically tied to sin. For instance Adam was commanded to work/tend the garden prior to sin. Yet after sin work takes on the aspect of a curse. Likewise death is natural to man (Adam and Eve were preserved from it by a praeternatural gift), yet after sin it took on the aspect of a curse. Now prior to sin Adam and Eve had integrity, so they would not have experienced involuntary pain. Yet this too was a praeternatural gift superadded to their Sanctifying Grace in original justice. Our Lady's sinlessness does not necessarily entail the praeternatural gifts, and relatively few theologians assert that it does. I do think it is better to say she didn't suffer pains in this regard. But Lad's point is valid insofar as it is possible that she choose to suffer these things. It is still scandalous to depict it in a film though because most faithful would not know these distinctions and would assume the film is saying the Mother of God was cursed for original sin. This is clear, since even many of the relatively well informed members of this forum drew this conclusion.
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https://youtu.be/ZzKs_1rwiNU?si=36xoqBFNppXly1dm