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Author Topic: Adults In Limbo  (Read 28738 times)

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Offline DigitalLogos

Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #40 on: September 22, 2022, 04:50:12 PM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on September 22, 2022, 04:40:45 PM
Let's be careful not to fall into the trap of veering off into BOD now.  ;)
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #41 on: September 22, 2022, 07:09:08 PM »
Quote from: epiphany on September 22, 2022, 04:17:53 PM
Show me the dogma of the Church on Limbo.

I was taught and believe three forms of baptism.  I also believe what I was taught about Limbo being closed after the resurrection and ascension.  I also believe it is not something we need to worry about if we take care to baptize as soon as is possible. 

Condemning anyone is above my pay grade.

I try to do the best I can and leave the rest to God.

Well, in the Creed we have ONE Baptism, credo in unum baptisma.

As for "what you were taught," you need to question who taught it to you.  You obviously misunderstood Limbo being "closed".  That's a reference to the Limbo of the Fathers.  Maybe you can believe what was taught by St. Thomas, if you'd take a moment to read the link.  Except that it's quite obvious that you "believe" what you WANT to believe.

And yet again you pull out the sanctimonious nonsense about "condemning [anyone]".  Nobody's "condemning".  We're discussing the criteria for salvation.  When we say that no one who dies in a state of mortal sin can enter Heaven, that's a reference to a criterion for salvation and has nothing to do with "judgment".

Yet all this is circuŠ¼locution for the fact that you don't want to accept that infants who die without the Sacrament of Baptism cannot be saved, i.e. that you embrace Pelagianism.
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Offline epiphany

Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #42 on: September 22, 2022, 10:20:47 PM »
Q. 631. Is Baptism necessary to salvation?
A. Baptism is necessary to salvation, because without it we cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Q. 632. Where will persons go who -- such as infants -- have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?
A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven.

Q. 644. How many kinds of Baptism are there?
A. There are three kinds of Baptism: 1.Baptism of water, of desire, and of blood.

Q. 650. What is Baptism of desire?
A. Baptism of desire is an ardent wish to receive Baptism, and to do all that God has ordained for our salvation.

Q. 651. What is Baptism of blood?
A. Baptism of blood is the shedding of one's blood for the faith of Christ.

Q. 653. Is Baptism of desire or of blood sufficient to produce the effects of Baptism of water?
A. Baptism of desire or of blood is sufficient to produce the effects of the Baptism of water, if it is impossible to receive the Baptism of water.

Q. 654. How do we know that the baptism of desire or of blood will save us when it is impossible to receive the baptism of water?
A. We know that baptism of desire or of blood will save us when it is impossible to receive the baptism of water, from Holy Scripture, which teaches that love of God and perfect contrition can secure the remission of sins ; and also that Our Lord promises salvation to those who lay down their life for His sake or for His teaching.

Why can't an infant, who has yet to be born, desire to be baptized?
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Offline AMDGJMJ

Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2022, 05:46:42 AM »
Quote from: epiphany on September 22, 2022, 10:20:47 PM
Q. 632. Where will persons go who -- such as infants -- have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism?
A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free from suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven.
This question and answer I think is the key to answering this thread properly.  

We know that at the end of time there is only heaven and hell.  We also know that those who have died without mortal sin on their souls don't have the normal suffering of hell but are deprived of the happiness of heaven. 

Ergo...  It stands to reason that there must be a place in hell where those go who have not committed a mortal sin and are innocent except that they never received sanctifying grace.  They are kept from the presence of God but do not have to suffer as those do who lived terrible lives and committed mortal sins and deserve punishment.
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: Adults In Limbo
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2022, 06:55:13 AM »
Quote from: epiphany on September 22, 2022, 10:20:47 PM
Why can't an infant, who has yet to be born, desire to be baptized?
With this question, I am now convinced that you be trolling.  Even Xavier and poche would never think to ask this question.
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