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Author Topic: About that Prima Scriptura issue...  (Read 15119 times)

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About that Prima Scriptura issue...
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2006, 01:29:21 AM »
Quote from: DominusTecuм
He does indeed have a great many disagreements with the more "conservative" trads. (This is putting it mildly.) This evening, he left chat to attend a Novus Ordo adoration of the blessed sacrament, and he will not confess to his SSPX priest, preferring the NO, since he doubts SSPX jurisdiction. It's truly unfortunate. But, to say the least, he does not fit the "trad" mold as defined by the "SSPX/Conservative Indult." Anti-SSPX sentiment seems to be growing over there, at least, this is what it feels like to me. Perhaps it's because there are less trads and more indulters/NO.

Anyway, as others have said, Lumen and Matthew had a thread wherein Lumen advocated a scott-hahn style "Prima Scriptura." He was soundly refuted by many people, but I don't think anybody's conceded anything yet.


Welcome, Eric! :smile: It would have been nice if I got to see the first thread about that prima scriptura issue to see what arguments were presented. I imagine Matthew had a pretty good one from I seem to hear. It would be something if he joined CI here. More and more I myself have also noticed that there has been a growing adverse sentiment against certain things advocated by the SSPX concerning the nature of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass, not to mention the issues of rock music and modest dress. Besides that, I have noticed too that there has been a considerable increase in the number of neocon indultarians and NOers on FE.

Offline Matthew

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About that Prima Scriptura issue...
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2006, 01:40:45 AM »
That's interesting, because the Indult mentality has a way of taking over, since it's more "moderate" -- as if that's the correct position because they get along with everybody.

I've seen cases personally where Indult Catholics make up a larger percent of the population, and then there's a sudden concern for "PR" and "what things look like to the Novus Ordo Catholics", etc.

When you have more "staunch" traditionalists, there is little or no concern for being misunderstood, etc. since they are fighting for the truth and they err on the side of zeal.

I know what you're talking about though -- I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall sometimes on FE.

For instance, the modest dress thing. As far as I understand Catholic doctrine, women should wear skirts and dresses, and cover themselves as much as possible, if they really have charity for others' souls. They should want to be ridiculed for the world (so much the better to prove their love for Christ!) if they might save one young man from sin. THAT is Catholic.

I've seen way too many who make fun of modesty (pictures of middle eastern women in burqas, anyone?) and who focus on "fitting in" and not inconveniencing themselves ("it's too hot!"), or not being glamorous enough ("that's so frumpy!") which is what I'd expect at Wal-mart, not among Traditional Catholics.

I could name many other examples, but that one should suffice to demonstrate the "with the world" mentality, which is NOT the mentality we should have.

In Christ,

Matthew


About that Prima Scriptura issue...
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2006, 08:15:50 PM »
Quote from: Trinity
What is Vox?  I know she is not a sede.  And I know she is a monarchist.  Otherwise I don't know what her position is.


Vox attends the indult, I believe, as far as I have known. She does has sympathies for the SSPX I think still, as far as I have known as well.

EDITED

About that Prima Scriptura issue...
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2006, 09:48:22 PM »
Jacob is saying that Scripture only holds a relative primacy with regard to the sources of revelation, nothing about superceding Tradition. Here is what he said:

So, just for good times: Prima Scriptura is an affirmation that, within the realm of Catholic Theology, Scripture holds a position of relative primacy among the sources of revelation.  It is what Leo XIII meant when he said that the Fathers drew "chiefly" from Scripture in their elaboration and defense of the Faith.  It is what St. Cyril of Jerusalem meant when he told his catechumens not to trust what he said, if he didn't back himself up with Scripture.  It is what St. Augustine meant when he repeatedly referred to Scripture as having "supreme" or "loftiest" authority, or what St. Thomas Aquinas meant when he said that our faith "receives its surety" from Scripture.

There is no need to read any sort of denial of authority to Tradition in this affirmation.  Or any real inequality between Scripture and Tradition.  But only Scripture is properly speaking the very words of God, because of Divine inspiration, and only Scripture is called "the soul" of Theology.

This is hardly a new concept, and all you have to do is read the Fathers to see this concept in practice, even if they don't use the phrase prima scriptura.
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One must also note that in affirming the completeness and sufficiency of Scripture, the Fathers always presuppose that Tradition is explaining Scripture. I am quite sure Jacob had this in mind as well.

About that Prima Scriptura issue...
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2006, 11:05:54 PM »
Well, Scripture is written Tradition. And Tradition in the strict sense is the unwritten Tradition. And as one priest learned in this subject put it, Scripture is still a part of Tradition (the greatest and best part of it, but only a part). Both are to be reverenced equally. It may be the greatest part, but if exaggerated to the point of Sola Scriptura, then we have a problem, since Tradition explains Scripture, by the authority of the Church.