I know many sede's have "problems" with the 1962 Roman Missal and I was just wondering what those disagreements are? Not trying to start an argument, just hoping to find something with a comparison or whatever. I have not been able to find out why some priests do not like the 1962 missal.

Thanks.

And removal of the Confiteor before reception of Holy Communion.

And removal of the Confiteor before reception of Holy Communion.

Indeed, but Ecclesia Dei stated that it can be added by custom, as the society does.

Quote from: Pyrrhos

- the implementation of St. Joseph in the Canon.

A biggie.

Why is that?

To sum it up:

- the implementation of St. Joseph in the Canon
- change of traditional classes of feasts (duplex and co) into four new classes
- reduction of orations (already in 1955) and commemorations
- abolishment of feasts (mainly 62), octaves and vigils (already 55)
- the reformation of Holy Week (mainly 55)


I think those are the biggest points of criticism by sede clergy.

This pretty well sums up the objections I've heard about the 1962 Missal.  It also sums up the objections I've heard about the 1955 Missal.  The clergy I've spoken to about this also have problems with the changes in the Breviary as well.  Since the Breviary is really complementary to the Missal and its not appropriate to use one Breviary and another Missal, this is also a very big problem.  

One change in the Breviary that was made (apparently for ecuмenical reasons) is that the Athanasius Creed is no longer (in the later Breviaries) said every Sunday, but instead, only once a year.  The weekly recitation of this creed reminded priests that the heretical religions simply were not sufficient for salvation.  Reducing its recitation to just once a year helped to ease the consciences of priests involved in so many ecuмenical activities.

Other than the change in the Canon, I, personally, have no problem with the 1962 Missal.  But, then again, I don't say Mass either.

Articles: Liturgy: John XXIII/Pius XII changes

The Pius X and John XXIII Missals Compared
Most Rev. Daniel L. Dolan
 
http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=18&catname=6

Missal of St. Pius X
 

Missal of John XXIII
 



1.Promulgated by a canonized saint who condemned Modernism, and composed with the collaboration of absolutely orthodox priests both learned and pious.
 


1. Promulgated by a pope who admitted that he was suspect of Modernism, the same pope who called Vatican II to "consecrate ecuмenism" and open up the windows of the Church to "renewal". Composed under the direction of Ferdinando Antonelli, who signed the docuмent promulgating the New Mass, and under the direction of Annibale Bugnini, the "Great Architect" of the New Mass, notorious modernist and suspected Freemason.
 




2.Based upon sound traditional Catholic principles which were employed many times by the popes in the past. This missal was used by the Church from 1914 until the ascendancy of the Modernist "Liturgical Movement" in the 1950's.
 


2. Based upon the principles of the modernist "Liturgical Movement" often condemned in the past by the Roman Pontiffs, this missal was a transitional work. According to Father Bugnini it was a "compromise" until the liturgy could be made "a new city in which the man of our age can live and feel at ease." It was used for only four years.





3."Do not innovate anything; remain content with tradition." (Pope Benedict XIV)
 


3."it is a bridge which opens the way to a promising future." (Annibale Bugnini)
 




Prayers at the Foot of the Altar
 4.Always said.
 


Prayers at the Foot of the Altar
 4.Omitted on (1) The Purification after the Procession, (2) Ash Wednesday after the distribution of ashes, (3) Holy Saturday, (4) Palm Sunday after the Procession, (5) the four Rogation Days after the Procession, and (6) certain other Masses according the new rubrics of the Roman Pontifical.
 




The Collect
 5. On days of lower rank, in addition to the collect of the day, the collects of Our Lady, Our Lady and All the Saints, Against the Persecutors of the Church, For the Pope, or For the Faithful Departed, etc. are recited.
 


The Collect
 5.All these collects are abolished.
 




6. The commemorations of a lower ranking feast of a saint or a Sunday are made according to the rubrics.
 


6.The commemorations of a lower ranking feast of a saint or a Sunday are either abolished or strictly curtailed, so that on an ordinary Sunday most saints' feasts entirely disappear.





The Lessons on Ember Days
 7.Always recited.
 


The Lessons on Ember Days
 7.The bulk of the Lessons are optional.
 




The Epistle
 8. Always read by the celebrant at Solemn Mass as specifically mandated by Pope St. Pius V.
 


The Epistle
 8. The celebrant at Solemn Mass sits over on the side and listens instead, just as he does at the New Mass.
 




The Sequence
 9. The Dies Irae must always be sung at a Requiem High Mass.



The Sequence
 9.
 The Dies Irae at a daily Requiem High Mass is optional.
 




The Gospel
 10.Always read by the celebrant at Solemn Mass as specifically mandated by Pope St. Pius V.
 


The Gospel
 10. The celebrant at Solemn Mass listens instead
 




The Creed
 11.Recited on many feasts according to the rubrics.



The Creed
 11.Suppressed on many feasts (Doctors of the Church, St. Mary Magdalene, the Angels, etc.)
 




The Canon of the Mass
 12.Unchanged since the time of Pope St. Gregory the Great.



The Canon of the Mass
 12. The name of St. Joseph is inserted; thus the Canon is no longer the "unchanging rule" of worship.
 




The Communion of the People
 13. The Confiteor, Misereatur, and Indulgentiam are always said before Holy Communion.
 


The Communion of the People
 13. Abolished.
 




The Benedicamus Domino
 14. Recited in place of Ite Missa Est on Sundays and Weekdays of Advent and Lent, Vigils, Votive Masses, etc.
 


The Benedicamus Domino
 14.Abolished, except when there is a procession after Mass.
 




The Last Gospel
 15. Either the beginning of St. John's Gospel or the proper Last Gospel of an occuring feast ends every Mass.



The Last Gospel
 15.The proper Last Gospel is abolished with one exception. No Last Gospel at all is recited for: (1) the Third Mass of Christmas, (2) Palm Sunday, (3) Holy Thursday, (4) Holy Saturday, (5) any Mass followed by a procession, (6) Requiem Masses followed by the Absolution, and (7) certain other Masses according to the new rubrics of the Roman Pontifical.
 




Changes in Feasts
 16.
 St. Peter's Chair in Rome
 Finding of the Holy Cross
 St. John Before the Latin Gate
 Apparition of St. Michael
 St. Leo II
 St. Anacletus
 St. Peter in Chains
 Finding of St. Stephen
 Commem. of St. Vitalis
 St. Philomena (by indult)
 St. Joseph, Patron of the Universal Church
 Circuмcision of Our Lord
 St. Peter's Chair at Antioch
 Most Holy Rosary of the BVM
 St. George
 Our Lady of Mt. Carmel
 St. Alexius
 Ss. Cyriacus, Largus & Smaragdus
 Impression of Stigmata of St. Francis
 Ss. Eustace and Companions
 Our Lady of Ransom
 St. Thomas a Becket
 St. Sylvester
 Seven Sorrows of Our Lady
 


Changes in Feasts
 16.
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Changed to St. Joseph the Worker
 Changed to Octave Day of Christmas
 Changed to St. Peter's Chair
 Changed to our Lady of the Rosary
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 Downgraded
 


Octaves of Feasts
 17.
 Epiphany (7th Century)
 Corpus Christi (1294)
 Ascension (8th Century)
 Sacred Heart (1928)
 Immaculate Conception (1693)
 Assumption (ca. 850)
 St. John Baptist (8th Century)
 Ss. Peter and Paul (7th Century)
 All Saints (ca. 1480)
 Nativity of Our Lady (1245)
 St. Stephen (8th Century)
 St. John the Evangelist (8th Century)
 Holy Innocents (8th Century)
 Dedication of a Church (8th Century)
 


Octaves of Feasts
 17.
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 


Vigils of Feasts
 18.
 Epiphany
 St. Matthias
 St. James
 St. Bartholomew
 St. Matthew
 All Saints
 St. Andrew
 Immaculate Conception
 St. Thomas
 

Vigils of Feasts
 18.
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 Abolished
 




Miscellaneous Rubrics
 19. Three tones of voice are used by the celebrant: audible, secret, and audible only to those at the altar.
 


Miscellaneous Rubrics
 19.Third tone of voice is abolished.
 




20. When the celebrant is at the Epistle or Gospel side of the altar, he always bows to the cross at the center of the altar whenever he mentions the Holy Name.
 


20. Abolished.
 




The Holy Week Rites
 21. Contains the Holy Week rites mandated by Pope St. Pius V.
 


The Holy Week Rites
 21. Radically altered to such a degree that they are no longer the Holy Week rites of the Tridentine Missal. These rites, in fact, needed only cosmetic changes to fit the pattern of the New Mass in 1969.
 




FINAL NOTES :
(1) The Communion of the People: Some priests, who claim to adhere to the changes of John XXIII on the grounds of "papal authority" nevertheless refuse to suppress the Confiteor, Misereatur and Indulgentiam before the Communion of the people, as prescribed by John XXIII.
 
(2) The Last Gospel: Father Bugnini expressed the wish "of many" that the practice of reciting the Last Gospel be severely curtailed or suppressed altogether. He only had to wait for a few years.
 
(3) Changes in Feasts: Note the modernist prejudice against the cult of the saints and against feasts which refer to papal prerogatives or apparitions approved by the Church. During Lent, the John XXIII Missal suppresses most of the Masses of the saints.
 


Free Info Packet
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I have read the article. Indeed, it is for the sake of prudence and for very strong extrinsic reasons that no more Saints be explicated in the Canon of the Mass. Intrinsically, however, it is something a (true) pope has the power to do because it is not divine law that forbids it. Prudential and extrinsic reasons can change to make it allowable, though it is not expected to.

The one thing I think is mistaken in the article is its reference to the Canon of the Mass being "unchangeable". It is unchangeable, but the article is mistakenly using the term in a sense that it was not meant to be used. The Canon of the Mass is called "unchangeable" in contradistinction to the other portions of the Mass that do change while it is being offered, depending upon the Feast Day and Liturgical season.

Hi Cupe,

It was more than prudence that prevented any changes to the Canon. It was Tradition.

Here are some excepts from a Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Canon.

Since the seventh century our Canon has remained unchanged. It is to St. Gregory I (590-604) the great organiser of all the Roman Liturgy, that tradition ascribes its final revision and arrangement. His reign then makes the best division in its history.

From the time of St. Gregory I (590-604)
Certainly when St. Gregory became pope our Canon was already fixed in its present order. There are scarcely any changes to note in its history since then. "No pope has added to or changed the Canon since St. Gregory" says Benedict XIV (De SS. Missæ Sacr., 162).

From the tenth century people took all manner of liberties with the text of the Missal. It was the time of farced Kyries and Glorias, of dramatic and even theatrical ritual, of endlessly varying and lengthy prefaces, into which interminable accounts of stories from Bible history and lives of saints were introduced. This tendency did not even spare the Canon; although the specially sacred character of this part tended to prevent people from tampering with it as recklessly as they did with other parts of the Missal. There were, however, additions made to the "Communicantes" so as to introduce special allusions on certain feasts; the two lists of saints, in the "Communicantes" and "Nobis quoque peccatoribus", were enlarged so as to include various local people, and even the "Hanc igitur" and the "Qui pridie" were modified on certain days. The Council of Trent (1545-63) restrained this tendency and ordered that "the holy Canon composed many centuries ago" should be kept pure and unchanged; it also condemned those who say that the "Canon of the Mass contains errors and should be abolished" (Sess. XXII., cap. iv. can. vi; Denzinger, 819, 830). Pope Pius V (1566-72) published an authentic edition of the Roman Missal in 1570, and accompanied it with a Bull forbidding anyone to either add, or in any way change any part of it. This Missal is to be the only one used in the West and everyone is to conform to it, except that local uses which can be proved to have existed for more than 200 years are to be kept.http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4gz5Y-_3r_EJ:www.newadvent.org/cathen/03255c.htm+canon+of+mass+catholic&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au

Quote from: TKGS

One change in the Breviary that was made (apparently for ecuмenical reasons) is that the Athanasius Creed is no longer (in the later Breviaries) said every Sunday, but instead, only once a year.  The weekly recitation of this creed reminded priests that the heretical religions simply were not sufficient for salvation.  Reducing its recitation to just once a year helped to ease the consciences of priests involved in so many ecuмenical activities.

Although I can see why this would a good evaluation of the religious and psychological impact of the change, in light of the pseudo-œcuмenism that motivated the pseudo-liturgical deformities of Paul VI, this is simply not true as an etiological explanation.

As the renowned rubricist Rev. Fr. John O'Connell observed in his study (published at London by Burns & Oates in 1956) of the simplification of the rubrics mandated by the General Decree De rubricis ad simpliciorem formam redigendis promulgated by the Congregation of Sacred Rites by authority of His Holiness, Pope Pius XII (23 March 1955; A. A. S., vol. xlvii., pp. 218 sqq.), the reforms were heavily influenced by the manner in which the Benedictines adapted the General Rubrics of their Breviary to the Bull Divino afflatu of Pope St. Pius X.

According to the General Rubrics of the Monastic Breviary, adapted to the prescriptions of Divino afflatu, the Quicuмque was said only on Trinity Sunday: "Symbolum S. Athanasii dicitur ad Primam post Psalmum Adhæsit pavimento, in Dominica Trinitatis tantum. Et in fine illius dicitur Gloria Patri" (Tit. XXXVI, n. 2). Hitherto it was said on all Sundays as it was said in the Roman Breviary before the reforms of Pope Pius XII.

Other precedents in the Monastic Breviary that made their way into the Roman Breviary by the simplification of the rubrics made obligatory on all clerics and Religious of the Roman Rite include: the elimination of Semi-Doubles. Before the Benedictines adopted Pope Pius XII's simplification (when they did this, I do not know exactly), only days within Octaves and Sundays and privileged Ferias were given this rite. Those Sanctoral Feasts that existed before as Semi-Doubles, were either reduced to "Memorials" (which Offices, though they appeared in the Calendars and Ordines, were commemorated at First Vespers and at Lauds only, without a Lesson of their own at Matins) or eliminated completely from the Universal Calendar of the Monastic Breviary.

Another precedent is that of making Sanctoral Offices of Double Major or of inferior rank optional during Lent at the private recitation of the Roman Breviary. The Monastic Breviary as adapted to the reforms of Pope St. Pius X reduced all Saints' Offices as Commemorations during the Quadragesimal and Passiontide Seasons that were inferior to the rank of Double of the Second Class.

So, the preceding are examples of how the simplification as mandated by Pius XII really came about, at least in these instances.

Father Cekada's arguments (as also those of Bps. Dolan and Sanborn, and others) against the reforms of Pope Pius XII are not convincing to me because, among other things (the least serious of which is that), he does not seem to take into account the huge influence that the Benedictine liturgists and rubricists had upon the Committee responsible for proposing the reforms to the Apostolic See.

As one who has prayed the Roman Breviary using both "sets" of rubrics, I can see why they were necessary and welcomed by all the clerics of the Roman Church. As someone who as youngster prayed the Monastic Breviary, the reforms just make sense in many ways. I think the benefits outweigh the evil ascribed to Bungini. I would think the authority of Pope Pius XII would settle the debate, but these are confusing times, I guess...

Is there a reason you went through all this discussion to defend the deletion of the weekly recital of the Athanasius Creed?  Though I am a little dense at times, I don't see what any of what you wrote refutes what I said above.  Remember that this topic is about the 1962 Missal.  Though the Breviary had been going through reforms earlier, it was never incompatable with the Missal.  While I can't cite all the authorities you cite above (including Father Cekada or Bishops Dolan and Sanborn), I have been personally told by at least one priest (and a couple others have hinted at it) that the 1962 Missal is simply not compatible with the older Breviaries, so it also had to be completely reformed.

I've only noted one of the reforms that I was told is significant.  

While I understand the "simplification" of the rubrics of the Breviary was already underway earlier in the century, I don't particularly see how simply deleting prayers is considered "simplification".  I'm also not arguing that the "precident" of changing the Breviary is invalid.

The only thing I really know is that ecuмenists deplore the Athanasius Creed and that the very same ecuмenists who changed the Mass in the 1950s, in 1962, and created the Novus Ordo also had a hand in removing the weekly recitation of the Athansius Creed.  I do not offer this as direct evidence of anything, only as part of the objections I've heard against the use of the 1962 Missal.

Ultimately, though you provided a very good explanation of the "Liturgical development" of the Breviary in the early XXth Century, it really has nothing to do with the criticisim of the developments that were ultimately realized.