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Author Topic: Pre-1951 Holy Week vs 1951-56: Side x Side Comparison  (Read 2421 times)

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Offline Cornelius

Re: Pre-1951 Holy Week vs 1951-56: Side x Side Comparison
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2023, 08:07:13 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on March 29, 2023, 07:56:21 PM
Stick with the Vincentian Canon, and you never have to worry.

“Sifting” is taught in the Bible (“Though we or an angel from heaven…”).  No need for that lesson if it weren’t possible.

Tradition is the measure of all things.  If it ain’t traditional, it ain’t Catholic.  The Pian Holy Week is one example of a non-traditional, foreign innovation.

That verse you quote is in regards to completely new revelations/doctrines that contradict what was already given. True popes have changed and suppressed liturgies before. Were the Holy Week changes bringing new doctrines? If he was wrong, than wouldn't Pius V be wrong when he suppressed other liturgies younger than 200 years old in the Latin Church with Quo Primum?

Popes have previously declares that Catholics cannot only abide by those things that have been infallibly declared or promulgated.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Pre-1951 Holy Week vs 1951-56: Side x Side Comparison
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2023, 08:15:13 PM »
Quote from: Cornelius on March 29, 2023, 08:07:13 PM
That verse you quote is in regards to completely new revelations/doctrines that contradict what was already given. True popes have changed and suppressed liturgies before. Were the Holy Week changes bringing new doctrines? If he was wrong, than wouldn't Pius V be wrong when he suppressed other liturgies younger than 200 years old in the Latin Church with Quo Primum?

Popes have previously declares that Catholics cannot only abide by those things that have been infallibly declared or promulgated.

Absolutely the new Holy Week rites imported new doctrine, and in fact a whole new ecclesiology.

True popes have changed and suppressed liturgies before, yes, but have they ever suppressed them and replaced them with wholly fabricated novelties?

The Pian Holy Week is a Novus Ordo.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Pre-1951 Holy Week vs 1951-56: Side x Side Comparison
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2023, 08:38:20 PM »
“Pope John XXIII himself, in 1959, at the celebration of Good Friday at Santa Croce in Gerusalemme followed the traditional practices, thus making evident that he was not in agreement with the innovations recently introduced and that he recognized the experimental nature of those changes.

…

Father Carlo Braga, the right arm of Annibale Bugnini and for years at the helm of the authoritative review Ephemerides Liturgicae, defined the reform of Holy Saturday in bold terms, calling it "the head of the battering-ram which pierced the fortress of our hitherto static liturgy." (13)

https://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2010/07/reform-of-holy-week-in-years-1951-1956.html?m=1
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Offline trento

Re: Pre-1951 Holy Week vs 1951-56: Side x Side Comparison
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2023, 08:55:41 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on March 29, 2023, 08:15:13 PM
Absolutely the new Holy Week rites imported new doctrine, and in fact a whole new ecclesiology.

True popes have changed and suppressed liturgies before, yes, but have they ever suppressed them and replaced them with wholly fabricated novelties?

The Pian Holy Week is a Novus Ordo.

Nonsense. If the Pian Holy Week is Novus Ordo, then +Lefebvre is pro-Novus Ordo.

Do read this article entirely.

https://www.ccwatershed.org/2023/03/29/73-changes-made-by-pope-pius-xii-to-holy-week/
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: Pre-1951 Holy Week vs 1951-56: Side x Side Comparison
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2023, 09:06:42 PM »
Quote from: trento on March 29, 2023, 08:55:41 PM
Nonsense. If the Pian Holy Week is Novus Ordo, then +Lefebvre is pro-Novus Ordo.

Do read this article entirely.

https://www.ccwatershed.org/2023/03/29/73-changes-made-by-pope-pius-xii-to-holy-week/

Yes, +Lefebvre unfortunately sided with the Novus Ordo of Pius XII.

Apparently, you are suggesting that it can’t be a Novus Ordo because +Lefebvre kept it?

If so, you are making a ridiculous and indefensible argument, as the novelty of the experimental Pian Holy Week is acknowledged by every serious liturgist of every persuasion.

Is the Dialogue Mass also not a modernist novelty because +Lefebvre said it?
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