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Author Topic: "traditional" catholics...  (Read 3032 times)

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Offline ingenting

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"traditional" catholics...
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2012, 01:39:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Roland Deschain
    From what I can see, none of the other Sui iuris Churches have seen it necessary to destroy their own Patrimony like we have. That being said I will note that modernist ideas and a fawning love for the Eastern Schismatics seems to permeate a lot of Eastern Catholic circles.


    Your post reminds me of my visit to a Coptic Orthodox church about a year ago,
    when there were Moslems in the news having riots in Egypt. I wanted to get a
    pulse on the attitude held by American Christians who have relatives and friends
    in Egypt. I was surprised to find this "fawning love" you speak of. Everyone I was
    able to hear said the same thing, that Moslems are good people, and some of their
    friends are Moselms, and that they have extended family members who have
    married into Moslem families. Curiously, I was unable to find anyone who knew of
    a Moslem woman who had married a Christian man. It's always a Christian woman
    who married a Moslem man, and then not only did she convert to become a Moslem
    herself, but sometimes she finds herself on the lowest rung of a ladder, as it were,
    other rungs being other wives!

    The principle attack against the Church has always been on the Roman Rite. Over
    the centuries, the Pope has stood in the way of the devil's assaults. It was the
    primary goal of Freemasons to put one of their own in the throne of St. Peter. Once
    their corruption took hold in the Vatican, the Mass could be attacked. The Mass was
    target number two. Then, with one and two somewhat under control, their attack
    can fan out to all the other offices and earmarks of the Church. Meanwhile,
    Catholics are becoming less aware of the problem, as if their minds are obscured
    by a "black fog" of unknowing. In many ways, those who call themselves Catholic
    today are functionally ignorant of what the Church teaches. In saner times, they
    would be "heretics," but in these days, they simply don't know any better, and
    if someone tries to teach them, it quickly becomes evident that they are not able
    to learn the lesson material. There is an element of will involved, supported by the
    fact that they have heard a priest, or several priests, tell them the opposite of
    what this someone is trying to teach them.

    We are now in the second half of the century of the demise of Catholicism. It was
    60 or 70 years ago that it got started, but certainly 50 years ago. You can pretty
    much peg it to 1960 when the tide changed direction. In 1960 there was no such
    thing as a "traditional Catholic," because all Catholics were traditional. When a
    Catholic stopped being traditional, he was then suddenly a "fallen-away Catholic."

    The term, fallen-away Catholic, was in common use before Vatican II. And then
    with Lumen Gentium 8, and "The Church of Christ ... subsists in the Catholic
    Church," it suddenly became popular to say that "You see, there IS salvation
    outside the Church." Vatican II did not have to proclaim that. All "the Council"
    needed to say is that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church, and
    word of mouth spread the heresy that there is salvation outside the Church. That
    was the end of the phrase "fallen-away Catholic."

    That's how it happened.

    so the the devil wants the Byzantine Catholics to celebrate a DivineLiturgy that is very close to the Byzantine Orthodox so they can embrace false ecuмenism?

    Offline Roland Deschain

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    "traditional" catholics...
    « Reply #16 on: August 04, 2012, 12:50:37 PM »
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  • Quote from: ingenting
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Roland Deschain
    From what I can see, none of the other Sui iuris Churches have seen it necessary to destroy their own Patrimony like we have. That being said I will note that modernist ideas and a fawning love for the Eastern Schismatics seems to permeate a lot of Eastern Catholic circles.


    Your post reminds me of my visit to a Coptic Orthodox church about a year ago,
    when there were Moslems in the news having riots in Egypt. I wanted to get a
    pulse on the attitude held by American Christians who have relatives and friends
    in Egypt. I was surprised to find this "fawning love" you speak of. Everyone I was
    able to hear said the same thing, that Moslems are good people, and some of their
    friends are Moselms, and that they have extended family members who have
    married into Moslem families. Curiously, I was unable to find anyone who knew of
    a Moslem woman who had married a Christian man. It's always a Christian woman
    who married a Moslem man, and then not only did she convert to become a Moslem
    herself, but sometimes she finds herself on the lowest rung of a ladder, as it were,
    other rungs being other wives!

    The principle attack against the Church has always been on the Roman Rite. Over
    the centuries, the Pope has stood in the way of the devil's assaults. It was the
    primary goal of Freemasons to put one of their own in the throne of St. Peter. Once
    their corruption took hold in the Vatican, the Mass could be attacked. The Mass was
    target number two. Then, with one and two somewhat under control, their attack
    can fan out to all the other offices and earmarks of the Church. Meanwhile,
    Catholics are becoming less aware of the problem, as if their minds are obscured
    by a "black fog" of unknowing. In many ways, those who call themselves Catholic
    today are functionally ignorant of what the Church teaches. In saner times, they
    would be "heretics," but in these days, they simply don't know any better, and
    if someone tries to teach them, it quickly becomes evident that they are not able
    to learn the lesson material. There is an element of will involved, supported by the
    fact that they have heard a priest, or several priests, tell them the opposite of
    what this someone is trying to teach them.

    We are now in the second half of the century of the demise of Catholicism. It was
    60 or 70 years ago that it got started, but certainly 50 years ago. You can pretty
    much peg it to 1960 when the tide changed direction. In 1960 there was no such
    thing as a "traditional Catholic," because all Catholics were traditional. When a
    Catholic stopped being traditional, he was then suddenly a "fallen-away Catholic."

    The term, fallen-away Catholic, was in common use before Vatican II. And then
    with Lumen Gentium 8, and "The Church of Christ ... subsists in the Catholic
    Church," it suddenly became popular to say that "You see, there IS salvation
    outside the Church." Vatican II did not have to proclaim that. All "the Council"
    needed to say is that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church, and
    word of mouth spread the heresy that there is salvation outside the Church. That
    was the end of the phrase "fallen-away Catholic."

    That's how it happened.

    so the the devil wants the Byzantine Catholics to celebrate a DivineLiturgy that is very close to the Byzantine Orthodox so they can embrace false ecuмenism?


    Byzantine Catholics share the same Patrimony as the Eastern Orthodox. There is no problem with that. The Byzantine Rite is of equal dignity with the Roman.

    The problem I see is that a lot of Byzantine Catholics seem to see the Eastern (schismatic) Orthodox as part of the True Church whereas traditional Roman Catholics are often looked at with suspicion or considered schismatics ourselves. Perhaps they could learn some lessons from their great defenders of the Faith and Rome such as Blessed Theodore Romzha, Metropolitan Andrey Sheptytsky and St Josephat.


    Offline ingenting

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    "traditional" catholics...
    « Reply #17 on: August 05, 2012, 02:36:02 AM »
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  • FSSPX Missions in Eastern Europe http://www.gloria.tv/?media=304588

    Offline Sigismund

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    "traditional" catholics...
    « Reply #18 on: August 05, 2012, 10:31:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: ingenting
    Quote from: Sigismund

    If I may ask, where have you seen this among Melkites?  No Byzantine priest should be using hosts to celebrate the Liturgy at any time.  Eucharistic bread should be leavened in the Byzantine rite.

    I think they do it here in Sweden. Are you saying that this Divine Liturgy is illicit?


    Well yes, I think it is, if it a Byzantine Liturgy.  There may be other Eastern rites that use unleavened bread.  Every Maronite Liturgy I have been to has used unleavened bread.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir