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Author Topic: "Reformed" Holy Week of Pius XII/Bugnini  (Read 5730 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: "Reformed" Holy Week of Pius XII/Bugnini
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2026, 11:12:24 PM »
The missal I use says Pius 12 restored the old traditions so that the ceremonies took place at the corresponding times to the actual event. So the easter vigil was a night and not during the day of Holy Saturday. 

Is this true? If it is isn't a good change?
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Offline Giovanni Berto

Re: "Reformed" Holy Week of Pius XII/Bugnini
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2026, 11:28:51 PM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on April 01, 2026, 11:12:24 PM
The missal I use says Pius 12 restored the old traditions so that the ceremonies took place at the corresponding times to the actual event. So the easter vigil was a night and not during the day of Holy Saturday.

Is this true? If it is isn't a good change?

As I see it, and I believe that most of the Sedevacantist clergy also do, the problem is not the time that the ceremonies take place, but the actual rite. If you read about the changes, you can see that there is absolutely nothing good about the reform, except the times. There were violent changes, and they all kind of give away what would be done later with the promulgation of the Novus Ordo missal.

Between 1951 and 1955 there was an experimental change of time of the ceremonies, so we had the old rites in the "right" times. This could be the best course to take, although I see nothing wrong in having the rites always in the morning. As far as I know, they started to be celebrated in the morning around the VIII century. It does not seem wise to revert changes made 1100 years ago. Not to me anyway.
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Offline Giovanni Berto

Re: "Reformed" Holy Week of Pius XII/Bugnini
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2026, 01:14:31 AM »
Quote from: Giovanni Berto on April 01, 2026, 11:28:51 PM
As I see it, and I believe that most of the Sedevacantist clergy also do, the problem is not the time that the ceremonies take place, but the actual rite. If you read about the changes, you can see that there is absolutely nothing good about the reform, except the times. There were violent changes, and they all kind of give away what would be done later with the promulgation of the Novus Ordo missal.

Between 1951 and 1955 there was an experimental change of time of the ceremonies, so we had the old rites in the "right" times. This could be the best course to take, although I see nothing wrong in having the rites always in the morning. As far as I know, they started to be celebrated in the morning around the VIII century. It does not seem wise to revert changes made 1100 years ago. Not to me anyway.

Correction: I have just read a text by Fr. Cekada explaining that in 1951 some rites were changed already.
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Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: "Reformed" Holy Week of Pius XII/Bugnini
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2026, 09:34:25 AM »
Quote from: Plenus Venter on April 01, 2026, 07:49:38 PM
You would prefer a Saturday morning Paschal Vigil?
At any rate, Archbishop Lefebvre had no such desire to use the pre-Pius XII Holy Week, he insisted on using the 1955 reformed Holy Week.
Here is some useful material if you want to understand what has always been the position of Archbishop Lefebvre and the SSPX:
https://www.romanitaspress.com/abp-lefebvre-on-pius-xii-reforms
 Imagine the mindset of someone who thinks that the issue is whether the Mass is in the morning or the evening.

and completely ignores the fact that the author of the new rites said it was a precursor to the novus ordo.

You really have to be drunk on sentimentalism or something.
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Offline Philip

Re: "Reformed" Holy Week of Pius XII/Bugnini
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2026, 11:56:19 AM »
Quote from: Giovanni Berto on April 02, 2026, 01:14:31 AM
Correction: I have just read a text by Fr. Cekada explaining that in 1951 some rites were changed already.
1951 saw the introduction of an, optional, Easter Vigil.  It was based on the former Holy Saturday service but truncated the number of OT prophecies.  It introduced omission of the preparatory prayers at the foot of the altar and the last Gospel etc.  A slightly revised form was re-issued in 1952 that included Lauds interpolated at the end. That was, again, optional for a three year period. Here in England it was only adopted by the odd progressive parish and some cathedrals adopting it in 1953/4. Interestingly, both forms retained the ancient Roman use of folded chasubles.

With the 1955 decree all the days of Holy Week were changed,  effective 1956, the most dramatic additional changes being to Palm Sunday and Good Friday.
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