Author Topic: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer (Read 2676 times)

claudel · « **Reply #15 on:** June 06, 2019, 05:52:53 PM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on June 05, 2019, 04:38:37 PM

What did he say that was erroneous?

The week promulgated in the Revolutionary calendar was ten days long, not six, the tenth day of each decade being a day of rest; i.e., a secular substitute for Sunday. Each month was thirty days long, and the remaining five days (six in a leap year) were set aside as festival days between the end of one year and the start of the next. As the Revolutionary calendar's year began at the autumnal equinox, these "jours complémentaires" (i.e., "completing days" or "filling-out days") were a sort of replacement for a traditional harvest festival.

Two final points. (1) Acceptance of the new ten-day week was virtually nonexistent, and once the Terror had exhausted itself, it was dropped for good by the government. The members of the working classes, especially the peasantry, refused to be persuaded that one day of rest every ten was somehow preferable to one every seven. What a surprise! (2) It was ultimately much more than the ten-day week that met with resistance. The Revolutionary calendar never gained widespread popularity outside governing circles. Simply put, few even of the Revolution's most ardent supporters hated the Church and the Faith enough to wish to have the reckoning of their lives turned upside down merely to eradicate the religious associations contained in the Gregorian calendar. When Napoleon became emperor, his proclamation reinstating the old calendar (1806) received universal acclaim.

Quo vadis Domine · « **Reply #16 on:** June 06, 2019, 06:41:11 PM »

Quote from: claudel on June 06, 2019, 05:52:53 PM

The week promulgated in the Revolutionary calendar was ten days long, not six, the tenth day of each decade being a day of rest; i.e., a secular substitute for Sunday. Each month was thirty days long, and the remaining five days (six in a leap year) were set aside as festival days between the end of one year and the start of the next. As the Revolutionary calendar's year began at the autumnal equinox, these "jours complémentaires" (i.e., "completing days" or "filling-out days") were a sort of replacement for a traditional harvest festival.

Two final points. (1) Acceptance of the new ten-day week was virtually nonexistent, and once the Terror had exhausted itself, it was dropped for good by the government. The members of the working classes, especially the peasantry, refused to be persuaded that one day of rest every ten was somehow preferable to one every seven. What a surprise! (2) It was ultimately much more than the ten-day week that met with resistance. The Revolutionary calendar never gained widespread popularity outside governing circles. Simply put, few even of the Revolution's most ardent supporters hated the Church and the Faith enough to wish to have the reckoning of their lives turned upside down merely to eradicate the religious associations contained in the Gregorian calendar. When Napoleon became emperor, his proclamation reinstating the old calendar (1806) received universal acclaim.

Thanks for the information! Even still, the analogy he made with the “luminous mysteries” was relevant.

claudel · « **Reply #17 on:** June 07, 2019, 02:43:41 PM »

Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on June 06, 2019, 06:41:11 PM

Thanks for the information! Even still, the analogy he made with the “luminous mysteries” was relevant.

You are welcome.

As for the analogy being relevant, I'll grant you that, but relevant only within very narrow limits. At bottom, the Revolutionary calendar and the strategic mind-set that underlay it—i.e., building a present and future by eradicating the past via elimination of the forms in which the past is expressed—are as dead as a doornail. The Luminous Mysteries, on the contrary, which are products of the updated and improved ʝʊdɛօcommunist strategy for material and spiritual transformation—a strategy that has been dubbed "revolution within the form"* because its point is to retain outward appearances and names but to replace or distort what those appearances and names formerly housed and represented—are, sadly, very much alive, at least in the still large albeit shrinking sphere of conciliarism.

Put simply, the Luminous Mysteries are integral to the revolutionary intent of the council and conciliarism: keep the name, discard or transform the innards. If they can do it to the Mass, why not do it to the Rosary, too?

Put practically, the Improved JPII Rosary still has a certain appeal to deluded but well-intentioned conciliar catholics, whereas calendar reform was an overripe fruit that no one especially wanted even when it was fresh.
____________________
*This strategy was first proposed by the Italian communist philosopher Antonio Gramsci (1891–1937), who learned it from Machiavelli, who derived it from Aristotle's Politics.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #18 on:** June 07, 2019, 11:47:49 PM »

Quote from: Mega-fin on June 05, 2019, 10:57:59 AM

The Luminous Mysteries are forgotten because the NO doesn’t pray the Rosary. If they have one and they use it, it’s for their chaplet so called “Divine Mercy”

Yes, so true.

Quo vadis Domine · « **Reply #19 on:** June 09, 2019, 09:43:57 AM »

Quote from: claudel on June 07, 2019, 02:43:41 PM

You are welcome.

As for the analogy being relevant, I'll grant you that, but relevant only within very narrow limits. At bottom, the Revolutionary calendar and the strategic mind-set that underlay it—i.e., building a present and future by eradicating the past via elimination of the forms in which the past is expressed—are as dead as a doornail. The Luminous Mysteries, on the contrary, which are products of the updated and improved ʝʊdɛօcommunist strategy for material and spiritual transformation—a strategy that has been dubbed "revolution within the form"* because its point is to retain outward appearances and names but to replace or distort what those appearances and names formerly housed and represented—are, sadly, very much alive, at least in the still large albeit shrinking sphere of conciliarism.

Put simply, the Luminous Mysteries are integral to the revolutionary intent of the council and conciliarism: keep the name, discard or transform the innards. If they can do it to the Mass, why not do it to the Rosary, too?

Put practically, the Improved JPII Rosary still has a certain appeal to deluded but well-intentioned conciliar catholics, whereas calendar reform was an overripe fruit that no one especially wanted even when it was fresh.
____________________
*This strategy was first proposed by the Italian communist philosopher Antonio Gramsci (1891–1937), who learned it from Machiavelli, who derived it from Aristotle's Politics.

Very good points and I agree. Your knowledge is much appreciated. Thank you once again!

ascanio1 · « **Reply #20 on:** November 20, 2019, 12:50:47 PM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 05, 2019, 09:16:06 AM

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-changes-text-of-gloria-lords-prayer
The Gloria will be revised to "Peace on Earth to people beloved by God" ……………
The Lord's Prayer will also be revised to "do not let us fall/be abandoned into temptation"
Reportedly, Vatican experts have been studying the Lord's Prayer for 16 years, recently concluding, "From a theological, pastoral and stylistic viewpoint," the centuries-old wording ("and lead us not into temptation") used in English translations of the Bible is incorrect.

Q.E.D. ... one more reason to use latin in out liturgy and prayers!

poche · « **Reply #21 on:** November 22, 2019, 12:05:11 AM »

Quote from: Last Tradhican on June 05, 2019, 09:16:06 AM

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-changes-text-of-gloria-lords-prayer

The Gloria will be revised to "Peace on Earth to people beloved by God" ……………

The Lord's Prayer will also be revised to "do not let us fall/be abandoned into temptation"

Reportedly, Vatican experts have been studying the Lord's Prayer for 16 years, recently concluding, "From a theological, pastoral and stylistic viewpoint," the centuries-old wording ("and lead us not into temptation") used in English translations of the Bible is incorrect.

I believe that that only applies to the translation in the Italian language. This does not apply to English.

Mark 79 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 22, 2019, 12:09:51 AM »

Quote from: poche on November 22, 2019, 12:05:11 AM

I believe that that only applies to the translation in the Italian language. This does not apply to English.

How typical for the son of the Father of Lies.
The article specifies "used in English translations" and you "believe" it only applies to Italian and not English.
Depraved compulsive liar.

ascanio1 · « **Reply #23 on:** November 22, 2019, 04:49:10 AM »

Quote from: poche on November 22, 2019, 12:05:11 AM

I believe that that only applies to the translation in the Italian language. This does not apply to English.

It applies to many languages.

poche · « **Reply #24 on:** November 28, 2019, 12:50:33 AM »

Quote from: ascanio1 on November 22, 2019, 04:49:10 AM

It applies to many languages.

The changes to the Gloria have already been placed in some translations of the Bible. I remember asking about the Latin in its original form, "Gloria in excelsis Deo et pax hominis bonae voluntatis" in a French language forum and they could only reference the concept of "on whom his favor rests."
The article references that this translation is in Italian; The Gloria will be revised to "Peace on Earth to people beloved by God" (pace in terra agli uomini, amati dal Signore) from "Peace on earth to people of good will" (pace in terra agli uomini di buona volontà).
https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-changes-text-of-gloria-lords-prayer
The real problem in the English translations is how much deference will they give to the feminist demand for inclusive language?

Mark 79 · « **Reply #25 on:** November 28, 2019, 11:03:04 AM »

Pooch, as a well-docuмented liar and heretic, your contributions are SATANIC. Even Lucifer mixes a drop of truth with his lies.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #26 on:** November 28, 2019, 03:37:01 PM »

Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on June 07, 2019, 11:47:49 PM

Yes, so true.

Yes. Many in novus ordo have replaced the Rosary for the Divine Mercy chaplet. So why thumb down truth?

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #27 on:** November 28, 2019, 03:39:35 PM »

They even changed the novus or do adding an injection right before communion service.

Also, the “Our Father” has been changed to add Protestant doxology: “For thine is the kingdom”.

Incredulous · « **Reply #28 on:** November 29, 2019, 08:42:16 AM »

Quote from: Mega-fin on June 05, 2019, 10:57:59 AM

The Luminous Mysteries are forgotten because the NO doesn’t pray the Rosary. If they have one and they use it, it’s for their chaplet so called “Divine Mercy”

The ʝʊdɛօ-masonic usurpers, who are currently running the visible Catholic Church, have put their slimy hands on our Catholic treasures. As Pope Leo XIII warned us in the original St. Michael's prayer.

Excerpt:

"These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the Spouse of the Immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where has been set up the See of the most holy Peter and the Chair of Truth for the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be scattered."

So too, have they modified our traditional prayers.

For example, the Fatima prayer inserted into the Holy Rosary at the end of each Decade has been bastardized.

--In English we commonly use the translation of the first version of the
text, cited just above, which is:

O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all
souls to Heaven, especially those most in need of Thy mercy.

The more accurate version would be the translation of Our Lady's actual
words, as Sr. Lucia reports them:

** "O my Jesus, forgive us and save us from the fire of Hell, lead all poor
souls toward Heaven, especially those who are most in need." **

literally "O my Jesus, you pardon us, you exempt us of the fire of the hell;
you take little souls all for the Sky, mainly those that more to need. "

This would be more theologically accurate, since there is ontologically
only 1 fire of Hell, not "fires of Hell", and the poor souls are not only
lead "to Heaven" but up ever closer "toward Heaven" through the various
stages of purification. And, the needs of the poor souls are not only
those respecting God's "mercy", but of our prayers and sacrifices and merits.

Finally, the punctuation of the actual text is more theologically accurate,
since it contains 3 petitions: forgiveness, salvation, and leading of the
poor souls: we pray for the first and the second for ourselves; but the
first so that we may merit the third for poor souls. And we pray to be
saved from the fire of Hell and for the poor souls, because according to
the Saints, it is the same fire in Hell and purgatory.

Link

poche · « **Reply #29 on:** November 30, 2019, 03:23:54 AM »

Quote from: Viva Cristo Rey on November 28, 2019, 03:37:01 PM

Yes. Many in novus ordo have replaced the Rosary for the Divine Mercy chaplet. So why thumb down truth?

The docuмent calls for translators to privilege respect of local languages over adherence to Latin.

https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-changes-text-of-gloria-lords-prayer

I think we should look at translations in the light of St Jerome;

While Jerome was an accomplished and careful translator, he was not a dogmatic one. He translated idiom for idiom, and not always word for word. For example, he produced at least three translations of the psalms in his attempt to capture and illuminate these prayers of the Church.
Jerome’s translation grated on the ears of contemporaries like Augustine because Jerome’s idea of translation differed from that generally held in his day. Most translators of the Scripture in the era before Jerome believed that the language of the original must dominate the new language. In part, this attitude reflected the belief that the smallest linguistic detail of the biblical text was divinely inspired and had its particular significance. The translator was expected to preserve this by rendering the original as literally as possible.
Jerome believed that a good translator will give the new language equal weight with the original and will try to make the translation equivalent to the original not just in meaning but also in quality of style. Any translation should reflect the new language used at its best—this Jerome learned from Cicero.
The principle that Jerome used as he translated was not “word for word” but “sense for sense.” Today the type of translation that Jerome favored is called “dynamic equivalence” and is found, for example, in The Liturgical Psalter sponsored by the International Committee on English in the Liturgy and published by Liturgical Training Publications of Chicago.
https://www.franciscanmedia.org/saint-jerome-the-bible-translator/

The idea is that the translation should be faithful to the original intent rather than a mindless word for word rendition. The problem I see is in the use of inclusive language. When you insist on the slavish use of inclusive language there is also a theological consequence that changes the meaning of what is being said and taught. This has the tendency to bring the inclusive use translation into a direct conflict with what the Church teaches.

Author Topic: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer (Read 2676 times)

claudel

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Quo vadis Domine

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claudel

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Viva Cristo Rey

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Quo vadis Domine

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ascanio1

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poche

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Mark 79

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ascanio1

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poche

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Mark 79

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Viva Cristo Rey

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Viva Cristo Rey

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Incredulous

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poche

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