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Author Topic: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer  (Read 2675 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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"Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
« on: June 05, 2019, 09:16:06 AM »
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  • https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/pope-changes-text-of-gloria-lords-prayer

    The Gloria will be revised to "Peace on Earth to people beloved by God" ……………

    The Lord's Prayer will also be revised to "do not let us fall/be abandoned into temptation" 

    Reportedly, Vatican experts have been studying the Lord's Prayer for 16 years, recently concluding, "From a theological, pastoral and stylistic viewpoint," the centuries-old wording ("and lead us not into temptation") used in English translations of the Bible is incorrect.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #1 on: June 05, 2019, 09:19:22 AM »
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  • Reminds me of when the French Revolution changed the names and number of the days of the week to 6 days and 5 weeks per month. No one changed for long, and after a few years it was forgotten. The luminous mysteries?
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #2 on: June 05, 2019, 09:21:05 AM »
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  • Anyone that follows Bergolio the Clown deserves him, he is a punishment from God to them for their sins. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Mega-fin

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #3 on: June 05, 2019, 10:57:59 AM »
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  • Reminds me of when the French Revolution changed the names and number of the days of the week to 6 days and 5 weeks per month. No one changed for long, and after a few years it was forgotten. The luminous mysteries?
    The Luminous Mysteries are forgotten because the NO doesn’t pray the Rosary. If they have one and they use it, it’s for their chaplet so called “Divine Mercy”
    Please disregard everything I have said; I have tended to speak before fact checking.

    Offline Student of Qi

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #4 on: June 05, 2019, 11:21:49 AM »
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  • The thing here though is that for the Our Father, the translation has already been this way for 100 years in Spanish, French, Tagalog, etc. 
      It's not the Official Latin that is being changed, which on turn is a translation from Greek was from Hebrew, if I'm not mistaken. I was reading not too long ago that this prayer was edited a couple of Centuries ago too. The more original Translation is "Forgive us our debts, etc", whearas now we say "Forgive us our trespasses".

    Is there any real serious change in the understanding of the prayer after the edit? Obviously, I'll continue saying it the way it was learned. Habits die hard and I have a hard time thinking this change will stick very well.
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #5 on: June 05, 2019, 12:40:24 PM »
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  • The Luminous Mysteries are forgotten because the NO doesn’t pray the Rosary. If they have one and they use it, it’s for their chaplet so called “Divine Mercy”
    Who invented the Luminous Mysteries? Sounds like something from another religion.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #6 on: June 05, 2019, 12:44:11 PM »
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  •  The more original Translation is "Forgive us our debts, etc", whearas now we say "Forgive us our trespasses".
    We are talking about English, can you sight a source that says "Forgive us our debts" in English speaking history?
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #7 on: June 05, 2019, 12:49:38 PM »
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  • We are talking about English, can you sight a source that says "Forgive us our debts" in English speaking history?
    "And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors." Mat. 6:12 (Haydock)

    Ver. 12. Of all the petitions this alone is repeated twice. God puts our judgment in our own hands, that none might complain, being the author of his own sentence. He could have forgiven us our sins without this condition, but he consulted our good, in affording us opportunities of practising daily the virtues of piety and mildness. (St. Chrysostom, hom. xx.) --- These debts signify not only mortal but venial sins, as St. Augustine often teaches. Therefore every man, be he ever so just, yet because he cannot live without venial sin, ought to say this prayer.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline claudel

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #8 on: June 05, 2019, 02:33:51 PM »
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  • Who invented the Luminous Mysteries? Sounds like something from another religion.

    Can it truly be that you don't know who invented and promulgated the Luminous Mysteries? This is hardly a secret to most Catholics. Think Polish.

    We are talking about English, can you sight [cite] a source that says "Forgive us our debts" in English speaking history?

    Every Bible but one approved for use by English-speaking Catholics—and I mean approved prior to 1970, so as to exclude the multiple versions of the conciliar-tainted New English bibles—translates Matthew 6:12 using the word "debts." Of those that I either own or have looked at, that includes the original Douay-Rheims, the Challoner-Rheims, the RSVCE, the Confraternity NT, and the original Jerusalem Bible. The sole exception is the Ronald Knox translation, but even he notes that the standard English form of this verse, with "trespasses," stems not from Matthew but from the prayer's Synoptic parallel appearing in Luke 11.

    In short, whether one is referring to Latin or English, the traditional wording of the Lord's Prayer is, strictly speaking, an ancient and authoritative redaction of the two scriptural forms, not a straightforward reproduction of one or the other.

    Offline claudel

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #9 on: June 05, 2019, 02:47:56 PM »
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  • The Luminous Mysteries are forgotten because the NO doesn’t pray the Rosary. If they have one and they use it, it’s for their chaplet so called “Divine Mercy.”

    Whether you like the fact or not,* the Luminous Mysteries have not been forgotten. Virtually every parish, no matter how conciliar and anti-traditional it may be, still has a Rosary Society, and when the society's members gather weekly or monthly to pray the Rosary in unison, they pray all four JPII-approved mysteries.

    Trads, I believe, should earnestly hope that those people who do so, especially those who are invincibly ignorant of the abomination of conciliarism, will gain at least three-quarters of the graces they look to gain from their prayers.
    _______________
    *For the record, I certainly don't like it.

    Offline claudel

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #10 on: June 05, 2019, 03:18:32 PM »
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  • … It's not the Official Latin that is being changed, which in turn is a translation from Greek [as it] was from Hebrew, if I'm not mistaken. … The more original Translation is "Forgive us our debts, etc", whereas now we say "Forgive us our trespasses".

    Anent "if I'm not mistaken," I am afraid you are. The NT exists only in Greek, and to this Greek original and to it alone adheres the guarantee of inerrancy.

    Anent "debts" versus "trespasses," see my last comment but one. The word in the most widely used English form of the prayer has been "trespasses" for at least 150 years. That is not to say, however, that someone who privately prays "debts" rather than "trespasses" or "today" rather than "this day" shows disrespect to Our Lord, let alone blasphemously adulterates the prayer.

    Note, too, that in verse 11 of Matthew, the Vulgate uses a word, supersubstantialis, where the familiar prayer, following Luke, uses quotidianum. In most bibles there is in this place in Matthew a translator's note on the text explaining that (1) supersubstantialis appears to be a coinage, not a standard term or even a word found elsewhere; (2) the Vulgate's use of the term in Matthew is largely inexplicable because the Greek word it translates is the ordinary Greek word for "daily" and is exactly the same Greek word used in Luke, where it is translated as its standard Latin equivalent, the familiar quotidianum; and (3) hence, while the precise sense intended by supersubstantialis cannot be determined, it is likely that supersubstantialis is meant to signify just what quotidianum does: something routinely needed in daily life, not something special or luxurious.


    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #11 on: June 05, 2019, 03:57:51 PM »
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  • Reminds me of when the French Revolution changed the names and number of the days of the week to 6 days and 5 weeks per month. No one changed for long, and after a few years it was forgotten. The luminous mysteries?
    :applause:
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline claudel

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #12 on: June 05, 2019, 04:24:00 PM »
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  • [[animation of hands clapping]]

    What are you applauding? Most of the statement about the French Revoutionary calendar is erroneous.

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #13 on: June 05, 2019, 04:38:37 PM »
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  • What are you applauding? Most of the statement about the French Revoutionary calendar is erroneous.
    What did he say that was erroneous?
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline jvk

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    Re: "Pope" Changes Text of Gloria, Lord’s Prayer
    « Reply #14 on: June 05, 2019, 08:17:50 PM »
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  • The NO say the Luminous Mysteries at funeral vigils.   :(