Author Topic: St. Alphonsus on Alcohol (Read 473 times)

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #5 on:** **Yesterday** at 09:25:47 AM »

Quote from: Godefroy on Yesterday at 09:18:26 AM

This may be a particularly American dilemma. The country is unique in which you aren't allowed to drink until you are 21, and this law is enforced very enthusiastically with ID checks at bars and in liquor stores if you look under 30. I don't know where else this happens.

Also american cinema and TV seem incapable of portraying someone who drinks other than as an alcoholic.

Drinking patterns are very different in nations which produce wine. As wine is generally drunk with food, it is a festive drink associated with an enjoyable meal. We drink wine at every meal and our children have been brought up where drinking is normal and controlled. (Although once or twice a year, with good friends we have been known to exceed what would be called moderate)

Yes. America is haunted by the puritanical spirit of its birth. Alcohol is for getting drunk: and Americans only differ in whether they think this is a good or a bad thing.

icarlytradcath · « **Reply #6 on:** **Yesterday** at 10:58:26 AM »

Quote from: WorldsAway on Yesterday at 07:56:15 AM

Good post. Many trads inexplicably refuse to apply this reasoning to cannabis use as well

IIRC there are three stages of drunkenness: physical impairment--->partial mental impairment--->total mental impairment/loss of reason.

The third being a mortal sin if reached deliberately or through willful negligence. The first and second are generally not unless there are aggravating circuмstances such as someone who is prone to commit mortal sins while partially impaired, like sins against the 6th/9th commandments, blasphemy, violence, etc

Thanks. This will get me some flack but I will go further and say I have seen people off "molly water" (MDMA) who definitely hadn't lost their use of reason, they could've written you a short story if you sat them down. The sin and danger lies more in the risk of addiction, of it being cut with fentanyl or other things, the harm to the body, helping the drug trade, etc.

icarlytradcath · « **Reply #7 on:** **Yesterday** at 11:19:40 AM »

Gury-Ballerini says this:

182. - Q. 1: What are the signs of perfect drunkenness?

Ans. The following are presented, namely: 1st, not knowing how to distinguish good from evil; 2nd, not remembering things said or done while drunk; 3rd, doing entirely unusual things, which, namely, are never wont to be done with a sound mind.... etc. - However, hesitation of the tongue, stumbling of the feet, seeing double objects, or objects spinning around are not certain signs. - St. Alphonsus Liguori, n. 78.

LATIN
182. - QUAER. 1° Quaenam sint signa ebrietatis perfectae?
Resp. Perhibentur sequentia, scilicet: 1° nescire distinguere bonum a malo; 2° non recordari de dictis aut factis in ebrietate; 3° agere omnino insolita, quae scilicet numquam alias sana mente agi solent.... etc. - Non autem sunt signa certa, haesitatio linguae, titubatio pedum, visus obiectorum duplicium, aut in gyrum se vertentium. - S. Lig. n. 78.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #8 on:** **Yesterday** at 06:04:46 PM »

I don't think there's any confusion on this matter among Traditional Catholics ... though there was a controversy over marijuana where certain Catholics refused to recognize that the same principles applied.

Now, there may in fact be extrinsic considerations that would render even imperfect drunkenness mortally sinful. So, for instance, an alcoholic who has even a single drink could get re-addicted, resulting in all kinds of grave circuмstances ... loss of job, inability to provide for his family, etc. In addition, there are certain individuals who, while not entirely bereft of the use of reason, might nevertheless be rather likely to commit various sins, either against purity or where they would become violent, and beat their wives and children. Or if there are some who would be inclined to drive while in such a state. In other words, for such as these, their use of reason would be sufficiently weakened as to render their imperfect drunkenness gravely sinful. Parents or others could also cause scandal by being observed in such a state by those over whom they have authority, by causing a loss of respect for their parents, or, say, if a priest behaved in a boorish / drunken manner where he could be seen in that state by the faithful.

Giovanni Berto · « **Reply #9 on:** **Yesterday** at 09:17:17 PM »

Quote from: Godefroy on Yesterday at 09:18:26 AM

This may be a particularly American dilemma. The country is unique in which you aren't allowed to drink until you are 21, and this law is enforced very enthusiastically with ID checks at bars and in liquor stores if you look under 30. I don't know where else this happens.

Also american cinema and TV seem incapable of portraying someone who drinks other than as an alcoholic.

Drinking patterns are very different in nations which produce wine. As wine is generally drunk with food, it is a festive drink associated with an enjoyable meal. We drink wine at every meal and our children have been brought up where drinking is normal and controlled. (Although once or twice a year, with good friends we have been known to exceed what would be called moderate)

It seems to me that almost all Americans have some degree of Puritanism, whether they are Catholic or not.

You are French, aren't you? At what age do you start drinking wine during meals? I like to learn about different customs.

I once flew on an Air France plane, and they give you a little bottle of wine to drink with your on air meal. Quite amusing to me. The wine was good for my uneducated taste.

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Author Topic: St. Alphonsus on Alcohol (Read 473 times)

Mithrandylan

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icarlytradcath

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icarlytradcath

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Ladislaus

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Giovanni Berto

Re: St. Alphonsus on Alcohol