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Author Topic: Nefarious movie  (Read 32115 times)

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Re: Nefarious movie
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2023, 01:35:35 PM »
Hmmm?  Of course the devil can pop a light bulb.
Still no quotes and to the contrary of what St. Thomas says https://www.newadvent.org/summa/1110.htm


Re: Nefarious movie
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2023, 02:00:10 PM »
If a demon can make someone levitate, he surely can break a light bulb.


Re: Nefarious movie
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2023, 02:06:44 PM »
According to Saint Thomas, Angels can affect nature by employing corporeal seeds by local movement. So breaking a light bulb for an Angel is no problem, just as we can break a bulb by hitting it.

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]I answer that, A miracle properly so called is when something is done outside the order of nature. But it is not enough for a miracle if something is done outside the order of any particular nature; for otherwise anyone would perform a miracle by throwing a stone upwards, as such a thing is outside the order of the stone's nature. So for a miracle is required that it be against the order of the whole created nature. But God alone can do this, because, whatever an angel or any other creature does by its own power, is according to the order of created nature; and thus it is not a miracle. Hence God alone can work miracles.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Reply to Objection 1. Some angels are said to work miracles; either because God works miracles at their request, in the same way as holy men are said to work miracles; or because they exercise a kind of ministry in the miracles which take place; as in collecting the dust in the general resurrection, or by doing something of that kind.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Reply to Objection 2. Properly speaking, as said above, miracles are those things which are done outside the order of the whole created nature. But as we do not know all the power of created nature, it follows that when anything is done outside the order of created nature by a power unknown to us, it is called a miracle as regards ourselves. So when the demons do anything of their own natural power, these things are called "miracles" not in an absolute sense, but in reference to ourselves. In this way the magicians work miracles through the demons; and these are said to be done by "private contracts," forasmuch as every power of the creature, in the universe, may be compared to the power of a private person in a city. Hence when a magician does anything by compact with the devil, this is done as it were by private contract. On the other hand, the Divine justice is in the whole universe as the public law is in the city. Therefore good Christians, so far as they work miracles by Divine justice, are said to work miracles by "public justice": but bad Christians by the "signs of public justice," as by invoking the name of Christ, or by making use of other sacred signs.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Reply to Objection 3. Spiritual powers are able to effect whatever happens in this visible world, by employing corporeal seeds by local movement.[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)]Reply to Objection 4. Although the angels can do something which is outside the order of corporeal nature, yet they cannot do anything outside the whole created order, which is essential to a miracle, as above explained.[/color]



Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Nefarious movie
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2023, 02:25:06 PM »
Still no quotes and to the contrary of what St. Thomas says https://www.newadvent.org/summa/1110.htm

This says the exact opposite of what you claim it's evidence for.

Re: Nefarious movie
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2023, 04:21:20 PM »
This says the exact opposite of what you claim it's evidence for.
You are hallucinating.

Quote
Reply to Objection 3. Spiritual powers are able to effect whatever happens in this visible world, by employing corporeal seeds by local movement.

Reply to Objection 4. Although the angels can do something which is outside the order of corporeal nature, yet they cannot do anything outside the whole created order, which is essential to a miracle, as above explained.

Reply to Objection 2. The angels, by causing local motion, as the first motion, can thereby cause other movements; that is, by employing corporeal agents to produce these effects, as a workman employs fire to soften iron.

Demons can influence souls and hence indirectly movements of humans or animals but will never ever be able to go beyond natural law.

E.g. a demon can make a person to dial the phone number but will never be able to do that himself.