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Author Topic: Church Authority and Sedevacantism  (Read 809 times)

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Offline happenby

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Church Authority and Sedevacantism
« on: August 08, 2016, 02:01:31 PM »
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  • Sedevacantism suffers its own death at the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

    Despite all the sedevacantist wailing about no pope, Catholics can be sure the Church has at least one pope. Succession speaks for itself, unless you refuse to see. Pope Francis was publically elected in a Catholic conclave  (as far as anyone knows), and now sits on the Seat of Peter, whether or not the man, Jorge Bergoglio holds the Faith.  Sedevacantists, in a fuss over a papal statement by Pope Paul IV, refuse to admit that Pope Francis is the pope. Practically speaking, Francis holds the title, the seat, the ring, the robes, the shoes, the office, religious authority, political status, not to mention the general recognition that he is the pope.

    Sedevacantists insist we have to ignore the trappings, the general recognition of the man, and that any Catholic worthy of the name, must deny Pope Francis is the true pope, refuse recognition because if he is a pope, its of a false and heretical church. That means Catholics must believe Peter's seat is vacant, and has been for up to a century.  The ramifications of that notion is nothing less than Pandora's Box. "Too bad," They say.  Sedevacantists teach that if a Catholic believes Francis is pope, they are outside the Church.  All this, sedevacantists claim, because of the very explicit words of Paul IV in "cuм ex Apostolatus Officio".

    For argument's sake, let's say the seat of Peter is vacant because we suspect the last several popes were at least flirting with heresy, or worse, really were full blown heretics that bowed to pagans (as some did).   Ok. Succession failed.  "No, its just suspended for a time!" They say, then they explain that cuм Ex specifically says a man can't possibly be pope if he is, or was a heretic. Ok, fine...let's think about that. Considering the less than stellar trajectory of the current Pope, its not a terribly big leap to call him the 'h' word.  Just for fun, lets take this Empty Seat road for a spin.  Now, all Catholics wave that Pope Paul IV statement all over Vatican City, and watch as an entire gaggle of wicked prelates and heretical Pope Francis vanishes!  Nice.  Now, lets watch as people wave the magic Paul IV wand inside Catholic parishes and give heretics das boot. Finally, these people, excommunication guns blaring, see they have the duty to blow each other out of the pews and by the authority of of Pope Paul IV, and they will all do it legitimately!

    Yep.  The laity, wide in opinion and understanding, now armed with the duty to judge and act on the statuses of fellow Catholics who follow their prelates, priests and bishops, suddenly must wield anathema guns on everyone via Paul IV's statement.  And by that statement, the sedevacantists claim the duty to shoot whomever they think guilty.  Boom! Anathema sit! Bang! Ipso facto excommunication! According to the sedevacantists, the laity must take the responsibility to weigh Paul IV's statement against all Catholics, not only to decide who's in or who's out of the Church, but how to take action on that decision!  Do sedevacantists really do that?  Oh, indeed they do!  Heretic is the new "h" word and sedevacantists use it frequently.  That means Catholics loyal to Christ and loyal to the papacy will inevitably find themselves southbound on the heresy bus... if they're lucky.

    I can hear the sedevacantists getting cranky right about now, insisting they never said Catholics may anathematize each other.  (Ahem.)  Nor would they admit that they too, wave the "anathema sit" wand over every heretic or Catholic loyal to the pope, but rather, they would argue, that one's own heresy excommunicates one and they are just warning people.  Ok, whatever. Go ahead and let them hold the wheel for a minute.  Since we're down this road, lets see if what they say holds up.  Let me ask...  "Does the heresy of a prelate really, automatically, unseat the guy officially?  How about physically?  If it does, why is he still holding the seat?  My next question is more complex than it sounds and takes a little reflection.  If the sedevacantists are right and cuм Ex doesn't unseat a prelate physically, what's the point?"

    For centuries, Joe Catholic was taught to recognize, admonish, and if necessary, avoid the heretic...but pray for him. When a pope or bishop became a heretic, until he, along with those defining accouterments of prelate and his office passed away, or the heretic prelate was removed, the average Joe Catholic held the difficult responsibility to resist what was wrong in that leader, yet still submit to his authority as an elected prelate. That's how its always been. Ask Joan of Arc.

    How can that be?  Because it is the express command of Our Lord Jesus Christ:

    Catechism of the Council of Trent page 399 and 400.  (30)  The Apostle also teaches that they are entitled to obedience: "Obey our prelates, and be subject to them; for they watch as being to render an account of your souls." (31) Nay more, Christ himself commands obedience even to wicked pastors: " Upon the chair of Moses have sitten the Scribes and Pharisees: all things, therefore, whatsoever they shall say to you, observe ye and do ye: but according to their works do ye not, for they say and do not." (32)

    The Passion of Our Lord completely obliterates modern sedevacantism because Jesus Himself recognized wicked Church authority and subjected both His Humanity and Divinity to it.  Jesus willingly subjected Himself to some of the most despicable and heretical church authorities in history.  Our Lord did not demand that Caiaphas resign before allowing him to God-manhandle Him. But! The sedes say: "wickedness isn't heresy".  That is a ridiculous notion because heresy IS wickedness.  They cannot prove these men weren't heretics.  Our Lord didn't usurp Annas' authority because of the man's corruption, deviancy from the truth. Rather, Our Lord Jesus Christ went as a Lamb to the slaughter!  But wait, sedevacantists say, that was Jesus.  He was God.  That doesn't count. Sorry, sedes, that won't do because Jesus also never admonished Mary for her silence in the face of heretics run amok. He never said, "do not recognize their authority, Woman. They do not officially hold office or power over us, let us wait for a true leader with the Faith."  Rather, Our Lord even takes special care to explain to the world that Pilate's authority (over Him) came from God above!  In order to honor His Father, Jesus submitted to a variety of authorities, both religious and secular, not just in the day to day matters, but even unto death!  And Mary imitated Her Son.  As our premiere role models, Jesus and Mary intend that all Catholics do as they did knowing they did these things without committing a single sin. Sedes still try to get out from under this when some say that it wasn't the Catholic Church then.  It was the Old Covenant.

    Sorry again, sedes.  The Old Covenant was legitimately promulgated by God Himself and remains the true religion until God changed it.  It too had legit (and sometimes heretical) authorities... just as Catholicism is the true religion of the New Covenant.

    There now. Do not suffer the guilt of having to be subject to wicked prelates another minute, good Catholics.  It is no sin to do so. Rather, it is the Divine Will!  One can personally recognize and desist from following a heretical prelate, but that in the name of the Faith. Remember that it is for God's greater glory that, while judiciously maintaining and fighting for the true Faith, moving to find the best teachers and prelates if necessary, we follow Our Lord Jesus Christ and His Mother in subjection. But personally unseat them? Obviously, Pope Paul IV's statement must be understood in light of the mystery of Christ's suffering submission. One day, those who belong to the wicked enemy will pay the piper. See that all things come to light in the Passion of Our Lord.

    --happenby


    Offline insidebaseball

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    Church Authority and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #1 on: August 08, 2016, 02:41:49 PM »
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  • A "sodemy scandal" at a Catholic school is less damaging to humanity then the repeated attacks the Vll Pope's inflict on the body of Christ.  History will easily forgive sede's if they're wrong.


    Offline happenby

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    Church Authority and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #2 on: August 08, 2016, 03:00:36 PM »
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  • Quote from: insidebaseball
    A "sodemy scandal" at a Catholic school is less damaging to humanity then the repeated attacks the Vll Pope's inflict on the body of Christ.  History will easily forgive sede's if they're wrong.


    Don't know about this...cannot make that call.  The problem it seems to me, is that sedes may be at fault for keeping people from attending masses.  The fewer masses heard, the sooner the mass will disappear and the harder things will become for all.  We need the graces to flow from the mass in greater abundance.  

    Offline Nick

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    Church Authority and Sedevacantism
    « Reply #3 on: August 08, 2016, 05:30:00 PM »
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    Sedevacantism suffers its own death at the Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ.
    By happenby
    Aug 9, 2016, 7:00 am


     :popcorn: