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Author Topic: 'Quod A Nobis', St. Pius V, Constitution on Breviary, 1568 AD. English Version  (Read 7533 times)

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Offline Twice dyed

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https://books.openedition.org/pur/110216?lang=en

This link will show the original French translation, Integral Text
OpenEdition Books. Presses Universitaires de Rennes
Annex III. Quod a nobis, Constitution on the Breviary (1568) {and Quo primum tempore on the missal (1570) }.
P. Guéranger (1805 - 1875)
p. 125-129
Text Author
Full text
Constitution "Quod a nobis" on the Breviary (1568) Saint Pius V

1. Pius, Bishop, servant of the servants of God; forced by the office of Our pastoral care to provide, as much as We can, by the aid of God, the execution of the decrees of the Council of Trent, We feel all the more in things that are directly concerning the glory of God and the special obligations of the ecclesiastical persons. We place in the forefront, among these things, the sacred prayers, praises and thanksgiving that are understood in the Roman Breviary. This form of the divine service, formerly established with piety and wisdom by the sovereigns Pontiffs Gélase I and Gregory I, then reformed by Gregory VII, having, with time, drifted away from the old institution, it became necessary to make it again conform to the ancient rule of prayer. Some, in fact, distorted the harmonious whole of the old breviary, mutilating it in many places, and altering it by the addition of many uncertain and new things. The others, in large numbers, attracted by greater convenience, eagerly adopted the new and abbreviated breviary which was composed by François Quignonez, Cardinal-Priest titular of St. Croix (Holy Cross) in Jerusalem. Moreover, this abhorrent custom had crept into the provinces, namely, that in the churches which, from the outset, had the use of saying and chanting the canonical Hours, following the old Roman custom, as well as the others, each bishop made himself a particular breviary, thus tearing, so to speak, by means of these new offices, dissimilar and proper, for each diocese, this communion which consists in offering to the same God prayers and praises in the one and same form. Hence, in such a large number of places, the upheaval of the divine cult; eventually, in the clergy, ignorance of ceremonies and ecclesiastical rites, so that countless ministers of the churches performed their duties indecently, and to the great scandal of the pious people.

2. Paul IV, of happy memory, seeing this variety in divine services with great grief, had resolved to remedy it, and for this, after having taken measures to ensure that the use of that new breviary would no longer be allowed in the future, He undertook to bring the form of the Canonical Hours back to the old form and institution. But having left this life without having yet completed what He had excellently begun, and the Council of Trent, several times interrupted, having been taken up by Pius IV, of pious memory, the Fathers, gathered in assembly for a salutary reform, thought that the Breviary should be restored according to the plan of the same Paul IV. That is why everything that had been collected and elaborated by the aforementioned Pontiff in this intention was sent by the aforesaid Pope Pius to the Fathers of the Council gathered in Trent. The Council having given several men,  docted* and pious, the charge of the revision of the Breviary in addition to their other occupations, and the conclusion of the Council being near, the assembly, by decree, brought the project to be finalized to the authority and to the judgment of the Roman Pontiff, Who, having brought to Rome those Fathers who had been appointed for this office, and having attached several persons of the same city, undertook to definitively consummate this work.

3. But this Pope, having himself entered the path of all flesh, and We, by the disposition of divine clemency, having been raised, though unworthy, at the summit of the Apostolate, We have pushed with greatest zeal the completion of this sacred work, calling even the help of other skillful people, and We have the happiness today, by the great mercy of God (because We thus understand it), to finally complete this Roman Breviary. We were given several accounts for the method followed by those whom we had employed in this matter; having seen that, in the performance of their work, they had not departed from the ancient breviaries of the most illustrious churches of Rome and of Our Vatican Library; that they had, moreover, followed the most serious authors in this matter; and that, while subtracting foreign and uncertain things, they had not omitted from the vast collections proper to the ancient divine office, We have approved their work and given the order to have it printed in Rome, and it was distributed everywhere. In order, therefore, that this measure may have its effect, by the authority of these presents**, We firstly remove and abolish that new breviary composed by the above-mentioned Cardinal Francis, in whatever church, monastery, convent, order, militia and place, either men, either women, even if exempt, which had been permitted by the Apostolic See, even from primary institution or otherwise.

4. And also, we abolish all other breviaries, or more ancient than the aforementioned, or possessed of any privilege whatsoever, or promulgated by the bishops in their dioceses, and  prohibit their use in all the churches of the world, monasteries, convents, militias, orders and places, either men and women, even exempt, in which, by custom or obligation, the Divine Office is celebrated following the rite of the Roman Church, excepting however the Churches which, in virtue of a primary institution, approved by the Apostolic Chair, or of the custom, antecedent, one and the other, two hundred years old, are in the obvious use of a certain breviary. To these we do not intend to remove the ancient right to say and to chant their office, but we allow them, if this pleases them the more, to say and to chant the Breviary which We promulgate, in the choir, provided that the bishop and the whole chapter consent.

5. We absolutely revoke all and each apostolic permission and others, customs, statutes, even bound by oaths, apostolic confirmation or any other; privileges, licenses and indults to pray and chant, both in the choir or outside, according to the use and rites of the breviaries thus suppressed, granted to the above-mentioned churches, monasteries, convents, militias, orders and places, or to the cardinals of the holy Roman Church, patriarchs, archbishops, bishops, abbots and other prelates of Churches; finally to all others and each ecclesiastical person, secular and regular, of either sex, for whatever reason it may be; even approved and renewed, in all forms from whence they were conceived, and of whichever decrees and clauses that they may be corroborated with; and We desire that in the future all these things will have lost their force and effect .

6. Having thus prohibited anyone from the use of any other, We order that Our Breviary and form of prayer and chant be kept in all the churches of the entire world, monasteries, orders and places, even if they are exempt, in which the Office must, or is the custom of being said, according to the use and rite of said Roman Church, except the above-mentioned institutions or custom exceeding two hundred years: *** in statute that this Breviary, at no time whatsoever, be changed in its entirety, or portion thereof, that no one would neither be able to add, nor to remove anything whatsoever, and all those who are bound by right or custom to recite or chant the canonical hours, according to the use and rite of the Roman Church (the canonical laws having statutory  penalties against those who do not say the divine office every day), are hereby expressly obliged henceforth, in perpetuity, to recite and chant the Hours, both of the day and of the night, being conformed to the prescription and form of this Roman Breviary,  and none of those to whom this duty is formally imposed, can fulfill but in this form alone.

7. We therefore order all and each of the patriarchs, archbishops, bishops, abbots and other prelates of the Churches to introduce this Breviary  into each of their churches, monasteries, convents, orders, militias, dioceses and places aforesaid, to remove the other breviaries, even if established from their private authority, which We have just suppressed and abolished; and, further enjoined, to them as to other priests, clerics, secular or regular, of either sex, be they  military or exempt, to whom the obligation to say or chant the Office is imposed, to carefully say or to chant, either in the choir or outside, following the form of this Breviary. [...]

* Men with doctorates
** The Constitution
***We write in statute
Feast of the Purification of the Blessed Virgin Mary, 2024 A.D.
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Offline DecemRationis

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  • Well,  this doesn't appear to be complete.

    For example, the Latin version I linked to in another thread clearly talks about the wrath of God being visited upon anyone messing with the Breviary, just like Quo Primum.

    See the attachments.

    The link to the Latin texts of both:

    Quod a nobis -

    https://books.google.com/books?dq=breviarium+romanum&pg=PP9&id=-cXYqusIEx8C#v=onepage&q=breviarium%20romanum&f=false

    Quo Primum-

    https://www.superflumina.org/PDF_files/quo-primum-latin.pdf
    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Yes, they're nearly identical.  I don't see the word "forever" (or some variation thereof) in either text though, which is what Stubborn was obsessed with.  Such expressions appear earlier in Quo Primum but complete Latin texts of Quod a Nobis appear to be rather elusive.

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • https://books.openedition.org/pur/110216?lang=en

    Having thus prohibited anyone from the use of any other, We order that Our Breviary and form of prayer and chant be kept in all the churches of the entire world, monasteries, orders and places, even if they are exempt, in which the Office must, or is the custom of being said, according to the use and rite of said Roman Church, except the above-mentioned institutions or custom exceeding two hundred years: *** in statute that this Breviary, at no time whatsoever, be changed in its entirety, or portion thereof, that no one would neither be able to add, nor to remove anything whatsoever, and all those who are bound by right or custom to recite or chant the canonical hours, according to the use and rite of the Roman Church (the canonical laws having statutory  penalties against those who do not say the divine office every day), are hereby expressly obliged henceforth, in perpetuity, to recite and chant the Hours, both of the day and of the night, being conformed to the prescription and form of this Roman Breviary,  and none of those to whom this duty is formally imposed, can fulfill but in this form alone.

    We'd need to compare the Latin of the above with the Latin of Quo Primum to see how the term translated here as "in perpetuity" compares to the equivalent expressions in Quo Primum.

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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  • One element in this matter that has been left out of the discussion is the meaning of  "Roman Church" as understood in the 16th century and the pragmatic extent of Papal authority in the 16th century. One cannot deny that non-Roman liturgical books have continued in the Latin Church down to the present day. The use of the Ambrosian Rite in the Milanese regions being an example.

    It usually shocks people to find out that nearly 100 years passed before the disciplinary reforms of Trent were implemented in the Kingdom of France because it was the perogative of the French monarch to promulgate ecclesiastical law in France, not the the authority of the Bishop of Rome. And even after thr reforms were implemented in France, local liturgical usages endured in France until after the French Revolution, e.g., the Parisian and Lyonnaise uses.

    This situation vis-a-vis the Crown to the Church existed in similar manifestations in the Kingdom of Spain, the Kingdom of Naples, and the Habsburg territories both inside and beyond the H.R. Empire. It had also existed in the Kingdom of England in the 15th and 16th centuries which is why few peers, temporal or spiritual, resisted the Act of Supremacy under Henry VIII. It merely advanced the already existing status quo a bit further -- but, of course, that little bit further moved the Church in England from a situation of tension with the Crown to a de jure schism of the Church of England from the Church of Rome.

    Much of this is now just peculiarities that interest historians and is functionally moot since Vatican I, but it meant a very great deal in the 16th through 18th centuries when Gallicanism and regalism were still tolerated, alternative ecclesiologies to Ultramontanism.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila


    Offline Stubborn

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  • Yes, they're nearly identical.  I don't see the word "forever" (or some variation thereof) in either text though, which is what Stubborn was obsessed with.  Such expressions appear earlier in Quo Primum but complete Latin texts of Quod a Nobis appear to be rather elusive.
    It's a moot point, Pope Benedict XVI said in his motu that the the true Mass was never abrogated, if the true Mass was never abrogated, what makes you think the law of Quo Primum was abrogated? Just because Pope Paul VI ignored the law does not mean by that act the law was abrogated, it means by that act he broke the law.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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  • It's a moot point, Pope Benedict XVI said in his motu that the the true Mass was never abrogated, if the true Mass was never abrogated, what makes you think the law of Quo Primum was abrogated? Just because Pope Paul VI ignored the law does not mean by that act the law was abrogated, it means by that act he broke the law.
    Ecclesiastical law, which includes canon law but extends to more such as liturgical law, has 3 ways to alter a previous law: abrogation, obrogation, and derogation. Look them up to see the differences.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Stubborn

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  • Ecclesiastical law, which includes canon law but extends to more such as liturgical law, has 3 ways to alter a previous law: abrogation, obrogation, and derogation. Look them up to see the differences.
    Sounds ^ like the same NO bs they've been saying since shortly after V2 and too many still are. Do you think that  you and Lad and any of the conciliar popes would all agree with what you wrote above? Most likely.

    You should listen to the whole thing in the below link, but at least skip to the 41 minute mark for his summary comments, should only be a few minutes worth of listening.

     I will take this priest's (later a sede bishop) explanations and all the other priests back in the day who all preached as he did in this recording, which agrees with what the docuмent itself clearly says / which disagrees with you and Lad. Forgive me for that.
    https://tinyurl.com/mrxc4k5n
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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  • Sounds ^ like the same NO bs they've been saying since shortly after V2 and too many still are.
    Nothing that I have written has anything to do with the тαℓмυdic - Protestant worship rituals of Paul VI.

    Stubborn, how do you ecclesiologically handle the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches ... CHURCHES ... that use distinct liturgies derived from 4 different liturgical families?

    How do you handle the presence of no less than 5 distinct, non-Roman liturgical Rites in the Latin Church not counting usages specific to religious orders, and this before Vatican 2?
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Ladislaus

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  • It's a moot point, Pope Benedict XVI said in his motu that the the true Mass was never abrogated, if the true Mass was never abrogated, what makes you think the law of Quo Primum was abrogated? Just because Pope Paul VI ignored the law does not mean by that act the law was abrogated, it means by that act he broke the law.

    Ratzinger said lots of things, including many that you would call heretical.  But the question is whether a Pope COULD change the Canon of the Mass (per the Pius XII thread).  Ratzinger was acting/playing "Traditionlist" precisely with a view to reabsorbing the SSPX, which I've been saying for years, and which Ganswein ultimately admitted, so he said lots of things to curry favor with Traditional Catholics.

    You keep throwing distractions out there to side-step the main point, which is that St. Pius V also said that the Breviary he promulgated must be used "in perpetuity".

    Offline jdfaber

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  • We'd need to compare the Latin of the above with the Latin of Quo Primum to see how the term translated here as "in perpetuity" compares to the equivalent expressions in Quo Primum.
    Quod a nobis:
    Statuentes Breviarium ipsum nullo umquam tempore vel totum, vel ex parte mutandum, vel ei aliquid addendum, vel omnino detrahendum esse: ac quoscuмque, qui Horas Canonicas ex more et ritu ipsius Romanae Ecclesiae, iure vel consuetudine dicere vel psallere debent, propositis poenis per Canonicas sanctiones constitutis in eos, qui divinum Officium quotidie non dixerint, ad dicendum et psallendum posthas in perpetuum Horas ipsas diurnas et nocturnas, ex huius Romani Breviarii praescripto et ratione omnino teneri neminemque ex iis, quibus hoc dicendi psallendique munus necessario impositum est, nisi hac sola formula satisfacere posse.


    Offline Ladislaus

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  • Quod a nobis:
    Statuentes Breviarium ipsum nullo umquam tempore vel totum, vel ex parte mutandum, vel ei aliquid addendum, vel omnino detrahendum esse: ac quoscuмque, qui Horas Canonicas ex more et ritu ipsius Romanae Ecclesiae, iure vel consuetudine dicere vel psallere debent, propositis poenis per Canonicas sanctiones constitutis in eos, qui divinum Officium quotidie non dixerint, ad dicendum et psallendum posthas in perpetuum Horas ipsas diurnas et nocturnas, ex huius Romani Breviarii praescripto et ratione omnino teneri neminemque ex iis, quibus hoc dicendi psallendique munus necessario impositum est, nisi hac sola formula satisfacere posse.


    Thanks.  So, a pretty literal translation.

    Offline Stubborn

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  • Nothing that I have written has anything to do with the тαℓмυdic - Protestant worship rituals of Paul VI.

    Stubborn, how do you ecclesiologically handle the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches ... CHURCHES ... that use distinct liturgies derived from 4 different liturgical families?

    How do you handle the presence of no less than 5 distinct, non-Roman liturgical Rites in the Latin Church not counting usages specific to religious orders, and this before Vatican 2?
    I don't ecclesiologically handle the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches at all. I know next to zilch about them or what you're even talking about and have lived my faith and my life without ever having to concern myself with them.

    Listen to the recording as I asked. It'll only take up a few minutes of your time.

    I still believe what this priest in the recording says even if nobody else does. Below sums up the current debate we are having. The question is asked to Fr. Wathen by one of the Dimonds....

    Question: Now people will say Father, that it could be changed because this is simply a matter of discipline, that the pope could change it because it’s not a matter of strictly faith and morals he could not make an ex cathedra statement to define the Mass, therefore the pope has the justification to establish a new rite – that’s what people are saying and that’s why your wrong father.

    Fr. People have been given the idea that whatever the pope has the authority to do he may morally do, we deny both that the pope has the authority to introduce a new mass and we insist that the introduction of a totally new Rite with a questionable theology, and that is putting it mildly, the introduction of a new Rite with a questionable theology is not only unlawful, that is, it goes clearly contrary to the established law, but it is immoral, independent of the law of which the pope is bound.

    People have the idea that the pope, because he is the head of the Church, has limitless authority. This is altogether wrong. He is not at all limitless in what he may do, he is strictly bound to what he must do and he is bound to adhere to what has been established. The role and the duty of the pope not to deviate from what has been established, but to make sure that all his subjects don’t deviate from it.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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  • I don't ecclesiologically handle the 23 Eastern Catholic Churches at all. I know next to zilch about them or what you're even talking about and have lived my faith and my life without ever having to concern myself with them.
    Then you are ignorant and should remain silent on all these matters.

    I cannot frame that in any manner more charitably. You admit knowing nothing about Eastern Churches or pluriform liturgical rites both east AND WEST. That is worse than sophomoric.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Stubborn

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  • Then you are ignorant and should remain silent on all these matters.

    I cannot frame that in any manner more charitably. You admit knowing nothing about Eastern Churches or pluriform liturgical rites both east AND WEST. That is worse than sophomoric.
    Oh BS. I will not listen to you and your high NO thinking. The crap you're talking is as old as this crisis and I've heard it more times than I can remember from other advocates of NO thinking. Whatever you do, do not listen to Fr. Altenbach, please don't even be tempted to click on the link. :facepalm:
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse