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Author Topic: The U.S. Mint  (Read 3224 times)

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Offline Kephapaulos

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The U.S. Mint
« on: December 14, 2011, 01:38:09 AM »
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  • I know that the money "produced" from the federal reserve system is fiat money, but does that apply more to the dollar bills as opposed to coins? Is it worth it more to have coins than paper money then? Is there a catch with the coins though?
    "Non nobis, Domine, non nobis; sed nomini tuo da gloriam..." (Ps. 113:9)


    Offline TKGS

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    The U.S. Mint
    « Reply #1 on: December 14, 2011, 06:56:28 AM »
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  • All money is worth what it is because people will accept it in exchange for things of actual value.

    Paper money has no intrinsic value which is why it's buying power fluctuates due to so many different factors.  Modern coinage is essentially the same.  The value of the metals in modern coins, even the penny (in the U.S.) does not even come close to approaching the stated value of the coins themselves.

    Frankly, it does not matter if you hold your money as paper money, coin, or bank balance sheets.  The value thereof will fluctuate according to a great many factors beyond your control.

    As for gold, it is not even money in modern economies, for its "value", as we have seen over the past few years, fluctuates wildly as well.  Its use in our economic system is more like stocks with the exception that it cannot go completely bankrupt and be worth nothing.  Gold is simply no longer money--this can be proved by taking a gold bar to any retail store in the world and trying to buy goods with it--it has to be converted to the local legal tender (usually something easy to do) before you can buy anything.  



    Offline SeanJohnson

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    The U.S. Mint
    « Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 07:09:44 PM »
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  • Quote from: Kephapaulos
    I know that the money "produced" from the federal reserve system is fiat money, but does that apply more to the dollar bills as opposed to coins? Is it worth it more to have coins than paper money then? Is there a catch with the coins though?


       Well, yes and no:

    1) Fiat currency derives it's value from public confidence, which in turn is derived from the government's promise that it will suffice for "all debts, public and private."

    2) But when inflation reduces this purchasing power (i.e., it takes more of the dollars to satisfy the debt), possible completely, then the money is only worth the paper it is printed on.

    3) With coins, they will be affected in the same way (i.e., they will lose their purchasing power just as paper currency does; after all, they are but denominations of these same paper bills), however unlike paper, they will never be worth zero, because the base metals of which they are themselves comprised still have market value.

    4) In some cases the "melt value" of the metal exceeds the "face value" of the coin (such as is currently the cased with nickels and pre-1982 copper pennies).  

    5) This explains why some people have begun hoarding these coins (i.e., They anticipate greater value once the government is forced to change the metal content of these coins, just as they did with pre-1964 dimes/quarters, because when the melt value exceeds the face value, the mint produces them at a net loss.

    6) Changing the content of the nickel has already been proposed, and once they do so, their value as collectibles will further increase their melt value and/or numismatic value.

    7) In other cases, the face value far exceeds the melt value of the coins (e.g., dimes and quarters).

    8) So a long-winded way of saying inflation will affect both Federal Reserve Notes and coins, though differently (and because of their content, not their origin).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline MiserereMeiDeus

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    The U.S. Mint
    « Reply #3 on: December 16, 2011, 02:07:14 PM »
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  • Whiskey and ammo are always useful, too.
    "Let us thank God for having called us to His holy faith. It is a great gift, and the number of those who thank God for it is small."
    -- St. Alphonsus de Liguori

    Offline Anthem

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    The U.S. Mint
    « Reply #4 on: December 20, 2011, 03:11:25 PM »
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  • If the US dollar actually collapses (hyperinflation), after the dust settles, some sort of "money" will eventually be necessary.  It is likely that metals used historically will again be used as money.  These would be gold, silver, copper, nickel.  Now, the question is, how long would such a process take to complete?  

    Money is merely a means to account for human labor.  At an even more basic level, money is a means to account for energy (in a physics sense). So, to say one has money means that he has a claim on some amount of energy.  In civilized society, people agree on how much energy a certain amount of money represents.  It takes a certain amount of energy (human and otherwise) to creat a loaf of bread.  Obviously, we cannot normally bottle up energy, certainly not "labor" and trade that.  So if we want any semblance of commercial trade, we must have a surrogate, which is money.

    The requirements for money are basically that it be limited in supply and not susceptible to being counterfeited.  It also needs to be transportable and durable.  A granite might be (somewhat) limited in supply, not easily counterfeited, durable, but it would be a great burden to use granite as money because of the amount necessary to compensate for its abundance (compared to something like, say, gold).

    Metals like gold and silver have always been chosen as money because they have all the requirements necessary for money (in a commodity money sense).  If we were suddenly to find millions of tons of gold that were easily mined, the value of gold would drop precipitously.  

    Fiat money is unlimited in supply, which is why it is a poor choice.    


    Offline ggreg

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    The U.S. Mint
    « Reply #5 on: July 11, 2012, 05:00:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: TKGS
    All money is worth what it is because people will accept it in exchange for things of actual value.

    Paper money has no intrinsic value which is why it's buying power fluctuates due to so many different factors.  Modern coinage is essentially the same.  The value of the metals in modern coins, even the penny (in the U.S.) does not even come close to approaching the stated value of the coins themselves.

    Frankly, it does not matter if you hold your money as paper money, coin, or bank balance sheets.  The value thereof will fluctuate according to a great many factors beyond your control.

    As for gold, it is not even money in modern economies, for its "value", as we have seen over the past few years, fluctuates wildly as well.  Its use in our economic system is more like stocks with the exception that it cannot go completely bankrupt and be worth nothing.  Gold is simply no longer money--this can be proved by taking a gold bar to any retail store in the world and trying to buy goods with it--it has to be converted to the local legal tender (usually something easy to do) before you can buy anything.  



    You have not travelled much. In third world countries you can still pay people in gold.

    Offline ggreg

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    The U.S. Mint
    « Reply #6 on: July 11, 2012, 05:05:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: sedetrad
    Quote
    At this point, I think hording toilet paper and cigarettes may be more profitable than hording gold.


    Wiser words have never been spoken.


    Here are some wiser words. The greatest value will be adapting to the new economic reality. Learn the new fishing skills.

    Toilet paper and cigs will run out and when they do there goes your income.

    Offline sedetrad

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    The U.S. Mint
    « Reply #7 on: July 11, 2012, 08:49:24 AM »
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    Learn the new fishing skills.


    I think that would be implied in any mad max scenario. I don't expect to be alive if TSHTF. I live on the coast of North Carolina and I could very easily see it being washed away. In any black swan scenario or chastisement, the people that survive are either lucky or God wanted them to.