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Offline Matthew

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Ridiculous!
« on: August 23, 2007, 12:12:46 PM »
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  • I have only one response: they aren't homeowners. When you own less than 1% of your home (free and clear), you are NOT a homeowner.

    If you owe $150,000 on a $150,000 house, you are NOT an owner. You are renting from the bank. Calling such people "homeowners" is like calling the luggage carriers at the airport "sky caps". Yes, everyone's a captain. Everyone's a king, right?

    Ironic how "democracy" leads to making kings and captains out of everyone... It's also ironic how the US "democracy" is turning into the most severe, cruel fascist dictatorship the world has ever seen.

    But the real problem is that THESE PEOPLE BOUGHT A HOME THEY COULDN'T AFFORD. That isn't good for anyone, especially themselves.

    Why should all the responsible citizens pay for their folly? Because if they get "bailed out" we will ALL pay for it -- at the very least in the form of a weaker dollar (ergo, everything gets more expensive) if not with outright taxation.

    Maybe I should go out and buy a huge house too, with 0% down, so Uncle Sam can pay the tab! (Just kidding)


    Gross: Bush needs to rescue homeowners

    Famed bond manager says a rate cut by the Federal Reserve won't stop millions of Americans from losing their homes.
    August 23 2007: 12:51 PM EDT

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Famed bond fund manager Bill Gross said the White House should bail out the millions of American homeowners who face the dreaded prospect of foreclosure this year.

    "If we can bail out Chrysler, why can't we support the American homeowner?" Gross wrote in his monthly investment outlook on PIMCO's Web site.
    Video   More video
    Jeremy Batstone of Charles Stanley joins CNN to discuss whether market normality will be sustained.
    Play video

    With nearly 2 million homeowners at risk of losing their homes this year and with housing prices rapidly receding, Gross said President Bush, not the Federal Reserve, is the best hope for "almost homeless homeowners."
    The mad dash for housing help

    "This rescue, which admittedly might bail out speculators who deserve much worse, would support millions of hard-working Americans whose recent hours have become ones of frantic desperation," said Gross, a founder of the fixed-income investment firm PIMCO and a columnist for Fortune.

    "Write some checks, bail 'em out, prevent a destructive housing deflation that (Fed Chairman) Ben Bernanke is unable to do. After all 'W', you're 'the Decider,' aren't you?" Gross wrote.

    Many have called on the Federal Reserve for help with the worsening state of the housing market, including cutting short-term interest rates. While the central bank has been reluctant to do so, Gross warned that such a move would not necessarily guarantee that adjustable-rate mortgages would not keep climbing or that mortgage lenders would relax their lending standards.

    More and more troubling news has emerged from the already battered housing market recently as foreclosures nearly doubled during the month of July from last year, RealtyTrac reported earlier this week.

    Home prices have also been hard hit recently, falling 1.5 percent during the second quarter, according to the National Association of Realtors. While falling home prices "might be healthy", the decline could represent an asset depreciation not seen since the Great Depression, warned Gross.
    Gross: Tough love on Wall Street

    The bond manager noted a homeowner bailout wouldn't be the first time the U.S. government has come to the rescue when the economy has faced a crisis.

    In the 1990s, the government rescued the savings and loan industry by absorbing its bad debt and late in that decade the Federal Reserve stepped in to restore calm after the collapse of a hedge fund, Long Term Capital Management.

    Gross made a handful of policy recommendations for the White House, including creating an agency to coordinate bailouts or aid for homeowners and making adjustments in the government's Federal Housing Authority program.

    He argued that action by the White House would not only help homeowners who might lose their home. Wall Street, which created, marketed and invested in complex securities backed by subprime mortgages over the years, could benefit as well.

    "Your stocks and risk-oriented levered investments will spring to life like the wild flowers in Death Valley after a flash flood," Gross wrote.
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    Offline Trinity

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    Ridiculous!
    « Reply #1 on: August 23, 2007, 01:50:18 PM »
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  • Antyshemanic:  http://cafr1.com/GK.html

    Trinity:  Where's mah gun?  I'm gonna shoot me a woof.  what ya mean it's being controlled?  I don't remember votin' fer gun control.  What you mean, we're votin' by proxy these days?  I want mah gun; I want my vote.  And quit sayin' TDB!

    Anty:  what we have here in this country is 100% communism under the guise of a free-market capitalist system. The government owns and controls everything."  
     
    This is what people need to wake up to,this is what they are supporting.

    Trinity:  Yes, I know, right down to our bare, if hairy, little butts.  Of course, our gov't isn't our gov't anymore, either.  Maybe we should think up a name for it, conveying that it is an alien entity.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Ridiculous!
    « Reply #2 on: August 23, 2007, 02:09:30 PM »
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  • "Rescuing" homeowners = nationalized housing = communism.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline dust-7

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    Ridiculous!
    « Reply #3 on: August 23, 2007, 02:57:43 PM »
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  • Quote from: ChantCd
    Famed bond fund manager Bill Gross


    Mr. Bill.

    (But wait - that's not fair.)

    Quote from: ChantCd

    "If we can bail out Chrysler, why can't we support the American homeowner?" Gross wrote in his monthly investment outlook on PIMCO's Web site.


    And they still make Chrysler trucks, thanks to it, even while the company had bounced around and is now in the hands of some pagan outfit, I guess, called Cerberus (?).


    Quote from: ChantCd

    With nearly 2 million homeowners at risk of losing their homes this year and with housing prices rapidly receding, Gross said President Bush, not the Federal Reserve, is the best hope for "almost homeless homeowners."


    As Chant noted in a previous message, they can simply walk away from the debt. Surrender the house, and apparently all is forgiven, magically, save that they have that mark on their credit record. But should they build up that nest egg again, that 'bad credit' can quickly disappear - despite what people are told.

    I think it bodes well for investment in rental property. And perhaps there will be a rise in rental prices. It also presents a buying opportunity to those able to profit from a bust on the promise that the property is valuable, or that they can purchase so low that even in a falling market they can still 'turnaround' for a few dollars.

    But people, all, would prefer such folks could keep the house, and renegotiate for better - or original - terms. The ARM is a contract with constantly changing terms. Fixed rate is all that should be available to the poor. ARM should have always been seen as a premium instrument, for the wealthy. Of course, people would have complained - how come the rich get such  . . .? Well, this is why.


    Quote from: ChantCd

    While the central bank has been reluctant to do so, Gross warned that such a move would not necessarily guarantee that adjustable-rate mortgages would not keep climbing


    It's an instrument, a contract. It has no life or intentionality of its own, Bill. Where usury has one sense of any interest, generally it's meant excessive interest. When these rates changed, they went from ethical loans, to usury.

    There's a way to stop usury, Bill - simply don't raise the rates. Renegotiate the contract. If the borrower could pay the lesser rate, then that's what the borrower pays. It would essentially mean new fixed loans to replace the ARMs. In olden days, there even used to be something called a, moratorium. But then - government - Bill's great 'white knight' - most likely is the crippling cause for such grief. Because it is - government - I would guess, at all levels, that over-regulates financial businesses and probably, by forms, and notes, and copies in triplicate, would disallow such renegotiation by making it otherwise difficult by a hosts of rules and forms, and fees.

    Take the government out of it, maybe you don't have quite the crisis.


    Quote from: ChantCd

    Home prices have also been hard hit recently, falling 1.5 percent during the second quarter, according to the National Association of Realtors. While falling home prices "might be healthy", the decline could represent an asset depreciation not seen since the Great Depression, warned Gross.


    Maybe Bill would prefer that the government bail out Apple or Microsoft, when its stock 'depreciates' on market trading. It's like the Soviet citizen, today, when asked about this problem or that - well, I think the government is going to . . . Perhaps Bill wanted all those small towns bailed out when the population moved to the city. Bill wanted, perhaps, all the local city governments funded so that old towns wouldn't become ghost towns. If government had simply subsidized the 'oakies', no great emigration to the west. And how much does Bill think the government should be subsidizing all these various folks over the decades? Or does he not see that he is asking for just that?

    If Chrysler was bailed out, might GM be next? But would Microsoft ever be? What about some high-flying wireless company that can no longer charge the exorbitant rates for easy money? What about the next huge fund that gambled and lost? And so on.

    Government as quick fix. Might it even be political? Might Bill be promoting for Democrats, as a Democrat? No one says, here. What compassion - instant subsidy payments to home-owners who have missed more than two or three payments? The ranch is saved - thanks to government, thanks to government subsidy, just as the Democrats have always said? Could it be that Bill is a politico?

    Maybe Bill should look less to the government and promote less government, instead. If lenders and borrowers can work it out, and salvage what had become usurous loans, then let the government stand out of the way of that. There's a role for regulation. But if the government allowed the 'market' to operate as a medicine show, then it certainly needs to step aside for a market to genuinely address the present imbalance.


    Quote from: ChantCd

    Gross made a handful of policy recommendations for the White House, including creating an agency to coordinate bailouts or aid for homeowners and making adjustments in the government's Federal Housing Authority program.


    Mr. Bill, indeed.


    Quote from: ChantCd

    "Your stocks and risk-oriented levered investments will spring to life like the wild flowers in Death Valley after a flash flood," Gross wrote.


    While all would prefer to see people who can pay, pay on original terms, or renegotiate according to their budget, government could very well be the obstacle. Less government, not even more 'coordinating agencies'.