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Author Topic: Plunge Protection Team hard at work  (Read 646 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Plunge Protection Team hard at work
« on: August 16, 2007, 02:56:59 PM »
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  • Very fake -- at the last 1/2 hour of trading, the DOW Jones index took off like a rocket, recovering about 300 points!

    If you look at the chart, it even LOOKS different -- like it's going up at a slow and steady clip. Certainly not "organic".

    Anyone doubting that "the powers that be" play around with the markets can stop doubting.

    Matthew
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    Offline Matthew

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    Plunge Protection Team hard at work
    « Reply #1 on: August 16, 2007, 04:07:10 PM »
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  • I'll give you a tip -- that movement in the last 1/2 hour is NOT NATURAL. Just look at how straight and perfect it is, with no internal noise or dissonance -- just 100% straight in one direction.

    Come on!  Hundreds of thousands of traders all the sudden became of one mind?

    Just look at the chart below and think to yourself, "One of these kids is doing his own thing..."

    Matthew


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    Offline Vandaler

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    Plunge Protection Team hard at work
    « Reply #2 on: August 16, 2007, 04:12:39 PM »
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  • Unfounded claims aside, you seem upset the markets recoup it's lost...

    Are you ?

    Offline Matthew

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    Plunge Protection Team hard at work
    « Reply #3 on: August 16, 2007, 04:57:46 PM »
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  • I'm upset that so many things in the modern world are fake.

    People's dreams are fake, our culture is fake, our entertainment is fake, our cohesiveness as as nation is fake, our money is fake -- nothing is natural or simple.

    I would like to see an economy where willingness to work = making a decent living, where one can save for the future (and not have one's savings ravaged by "inflation"), etc.

    We have none of that right now. That is what upsets me.

    The stock market is a huge ponzi scheme, and few people realize it. Just when things were correcting (as they rightfully should, and have in fact done many times in the past), the puppetmasters step in and prop things up artificially. Are you saying that's a good thing?

    What do they want, constant 10% annual growth with no corrections ever? That's what some (ignorant) people think the stock market is, but it hasn't been that historically, and never will be. Because infinite growth isn't possible in a finite world.

    P.S. How is my claim unfounded? It's a historical fact that after the 1987 Crash, President Reagan set up the "Working Group on Financial Markets" (a.k.a. "Plunge Protection Team") to avert such a huge 1-day crash in the future. They use treasury slush funds, etc. to manipulate the markets when they are going the wrong way. And just look at the graph -- since when does the whole market operate as a "hive" with no disagreement whatsoever? All day long you have jagged ups-and-downs -- until at the end, EVERYONE says "BUY!" as if they all have one shared soul.

    Matthew
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    Offline Vandaler

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    Plunge Protection Team hard at work
    « Reply #4 on: August 16, 2007, 05:15:05 PM »
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  • First I need to atone.  I was not familiar with the term Plunge Protection Team so in essence, I missed some of the meaning included in your posts.  With that in mind, I should have wrote unsubstantiated rather then unfounded.

    It does not change much to both point I take exception with.
     
    - Closing rally was fake.
    - This is discernible by looking at the graph.

    Quote
    I'm upset that so many things in the modern world are fake.

    People's dreams are fake, our culture is fake, our entertainment is fake, our cohesiveness as as nation is fake, our money is fake -- nothing is natural or simple.

    I would like to see an economy where willingness to work = making a decent living, where one can save for the future (and not have one's savings ravaged by "inflation"), etc.

    We have none of that right now. That is what upsets me.

    So far, so good.

    Quote
    The stock market is a huge ponzi scheme, and few people realize it. Just when things were correcting (as they rightfully should, and have in fact done many times in the past), the puppetmasters step in and prop things up artificially. Are you saying that's a good thing?

    You are asking the question as if it's understood and agreed that puppetmasters are at play.  This goes back to the first unsubstantiated point for which I am complaining now.

    Quote
    What do they want, constant 10% annual growth with no corrections ever? That's what some (ignorant) people think the stock market is, but it hasn't been that historically, and never will be. Because infinite growth isn't possible in a finite world.

    I don't know that anyone serious thinks like you just wrote. But it's likely a few. Juxtaposing an ignorant position next to yours may in the mind of some make your position more acceptable, but in effect it does not contribute to the argumentation at all.

    Quote
    How is my claim unfounded? It's a historical fact that after the 1987 Crash, President Reagan set up the "Working Group on Financial Markets" (a.k.a. "Plunge Protection Team")


    OK, so I did some home work.

    Yes, Executive Order 12631--Working Group on Financial Markets was indeed setup by Reagan.  However, this does not equate, like your a.k.a. suggest to the "Plunge Protection Team"; the very  existence of it being subject of speculation and theory.

    That there is a "Plunge Protection Team" or not and what it does is not what is at stake however, what matters is whither it intervened today (if it exist)  .

    The only way to know, would be to review who bought the stocks at closing time (and have some clue of what kind of footprint to look for) but, that is not what you claim.  You write that this can be discerned just by looking at the graph.  Thats my second problem.

    First, you reproduced a lined graph, quite small. Line graphs smooth out all the edges and represent really the averaged out
    behaviour of the market.  To have an honest picture of what happened, you need to zoom in with a candlestick graph.

    Your argument that the recovery was "going up at a slow and steady clip" and "not organic" may be right as far as aesthetics goes, but in terms of market behaviour, it was possible.

    You need an antecedent ?  How about 1 minute earlier.



    Between point 1 and 2 the DOW lost around 150 points in about 20 minutes.  As you notice, the line is even straighter then the subsequent comeback right next to it.  How can that be ?

    Quote
    "since when does the whole market operate as a "hive" with no disagreement whatsoever? All day long you have jagged ups-and-downs -- until at the end, EVERYONE says "SELL!" as if they all have one shared soul."


    Pretty much yes !

    You will notice that the climb up from 2 to 3 is not as clean then you suggested with the line graph you posted.  And not nearly has clean then the drop it had just minutes ago.

    Finally, you missed the most salient point...  trading in the end of the session was so frantic that many intra day transactions where in fact compiled after the closing bell (see point 4.) with close to 40,000,000 in volume at the last minute.  All these transaction are likely to have occured during the rally and would have contributed to add a more organic feeling to the climb.